Con Artists and Knowing the Source of Claims

[_Inconceivable]

..your list will work as well as any.

Perhaps it reflects your mentality while a member..

This is a partial list that reflects my observation.


MLM is the Devil's workshop.



xango you, Wade.

[_Moniker]

Hi JAK....

Perhaps we have a range of people from those who are hard wired to believe the most ridiculous to those who are also hard wired to ask questions and to be skeptical.

I have for some time now, come to believe that there is a hard-wiring to belief. Mainly because of books like, Ramanchandran's, Phantoms in the Brain, and others that discuss the neurology of belief.

I hadn't thought about the idea of a hard wiring for questioning, wondering, believing, and accepting.

As I have contemplated this idea, I do think you may be on to something. There are certainly those who can't stop asking questions, who like to explore, who question and wonder about everything. And, there are those who seem to accept and believe more easily.

I wonder if those who believe easily are those who need a more clear picture of life? In other words, they (or at least their ancestors), survived better by having answers, (true or not). Maybe they were able to use more energy for survival by trusting others rather than finding their own answers? And, maybe there are others who survive better exploring and NOT trusting? Maybe their ancestors enjoyed the discovery and contemplation?

Hmmm just wondering out loud here... thanks for your insights on this!

~dancer~

I'd never considered hard wiring for those things either. What an interesting post!

Surely there is someone exploring this? I would hope so. I just did a quick Google and couldn't come up with anything. Yet, I don't know what I should be searching for precisely.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Moniker,

There is actually a lot of interesting information concerning the neurology of belief.

It is actually a topic I've looked into for some time now.

If you are interested, I would start with Phantoms in the Brain. It is amazing. It explains Hoffer's True Believer. ;-)

Also, from different perspectives, Dean Hamer's, The God Gene, how faith is hardwired into our brain, and Andrew Newberg's Why God Won't Go Away, brain science and the biology of belief, are interesting.

in my opinion, it seems quite clear there is an actual neurological component to belief. It certainly explains why so many can't accept reality in the face of clear evidence, and why many people simply cannot let go of belief.

As JAK suggests, it may also be that our very need to question or accept is also hardwired. Interesting idea for sure!

:-)

~dancer~

[_beastie]

I think it has to do with the investment paradigm. Usually these scams require an investment of money and maybe even time. No one wants to think they've just flushed money and time down the toilet, nor do they want to admit they've been "had". Plus, the promise is just so desirable! So they keep looking for reasons to continue to believe it WILL work, against any contrary evidence. Once a person is eager to believe, they are extraordinarily easy to convince.

I do personally believe that people are hard wired to skepticism or belief. There are tantalizing clues this may be so, but nothing conclusive. But it makes sense to me in terms of evolution. Human beings, in the ancestral environment, tended to survive at a higher rate with a certain mix of tendencies. Some were authoritarian personalities, that were happy and willing to follow the leader without question. During times when fast decisions have to be made, it certainly can be a survival technique to follow the leader - this is why militaries deliberately inculcate this trait. At the same time, some have to be the leader - someone with charisma and complete confidence in their own leadership. Yet, it makes sense that some bit of skepticism was developed, too, since it might also be useful to have a person or two who questions the leader now and then.

It reminds me of a study they did with a certain type of fish - I can't remember the details at the moment. But this fish species had two lines of behavior. One was an upfront, take care of your own, type of behavior, and the other strain was a predatory type of taking advantage of others. But what was interesting was that there seemed to be a certain ratio of good guy versus bad guy that had to be maintained in order for the mix to "work". Too many "bad guys" and the entire species would get wiped out by angry others. Too many "good guys" and they had less advantage in the environment. I may be messing this all up, I'll try to find it - I think it was in Robert Wright's book.

So would the human species have thrived and survived to the extent we have if EVERYONE had an authoritarian personality? No, because there are times when the leader really is just wrong. So would the human species have thrived and survived to the extent was have if EVERYONE was a skeptic? No, because there are times when simply following a leader without questioning is the only way to survive.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Beastie,

I remember reading that fish story as well... (smile) I'm pretty sure it was in Wright's, The Selfish Gene.


I think the evolution of humankind collectively requires those who follow and those who, using Joseph Campbell's term, take the hero's journey.

It seems that without the tribe (with its accompanying rules, beliefs, ideals, structure, etc), humankind would flounder, certainly NOT survive as we have. Yet, without those who can leave the tribe, (and explore, wander, question), there would not be any growth, further enlightenment (smile), or evolution.

In terms of humans believing and accepting, it may be that what it is that is actually believed is not as important as the hope and happiness it promises, the satisfaction of tribal security, and the comfort one gains from having the answers?

~dancer~

[_Moniker]

Hi Moniker,

There is actually a lot of interesting information concerning the neurology of belief.

It is actually a topic I've looked into for some time now.

If you are interested, I would start with Phantoms in the Brain. It is amazing. It explains Hoffer's True Believer. ;-)

Also, from different perspectives, Dean Hamer's, The God Gene, how faith is hardwired into our brain, and Andrew Newberg's Why God Won't Go Away, brain science and the biology of belief, are interesting.

in my opinion, it seems quite clear there is an actual neurological component to belief. It certainly explains why so many can't accept reality in the face of clear evidence, and why many people simply cannot let go of belief.

As JAK suggests, it may also be that our very need to question or accept is also hardwired. Interesting idea for sure!

:-)

~dancer~

Hi, TD! Yes, I've read some, just lately, on belief and how it is hardwired. I was specifically (and I wasn't clear!) responding to your and JAK's comments about hardwiring for questioning, acceptance, etc... Why some are more inclined to be skeptical? I've always assumed it had more to do with nurture rather than nature. Yet, that doesn't work for me anymore. I'm not certain why I thought that it was more upbringing -- but I did just from casual observations. I would love to find out more about this!

[_Ren]

Hi, TD! Yes, I've read some, just lately, on belief and how it is hardwired. I was specifically (and I wasn't clear!) responding to your and JAK's comments about hardwiring for questioning, acceptance, etc... Why some are more inclined to be skeptical? I've always assumed it had more to do with nurture rather than nature. Yet, that doesn't work for me anymore. I'm not certain why I thought that it was more upbringing -- but I did just from casual observations. I would love to find out more about this!

There are 4 children in our family. We were all raised the same way, and we are an even split between belief and disbelief. 2 do, 2 don't.
The weird thing (or not so weird...?) is that my youngest brother and I are alike in most other ways, yet we are split on the belief issue...