Moniker wrote:I was wondering if you were asleep. ;)
Heh - I should be asleep right now :)
I'm still not that familiar with Ann Rynd - so I'd need to look more into that before commenting specifically on that I guess...
But looking purely at Libertarianism, I can't see why taking the idea 'seriously' should suddenly be considered 'cultish'. Besides - 'cult' is such a tired word anyway. I don't know why people even bother with it half the time. It usually just ends up being a convenient name to throw at some system of belief you just don't happen to like that much...
Oh - and I got what you meant about wanting and striving to be a good decent person separately from religion. I think you were pretty clear myself...
Moniker wrote:I was wondering if you were asleep. ;)
Heh - I should be asleep right now :) I'm still not that familiar with Ann Rynd - so I'd need to look more into that before commenting specifically on that I guess...
But looking purely at Libertarianism, I can't see why taking the idea 'seriously' should suddenly be considered 'cultish'. Besides - 'cult' is such a tired word anyway. I don't why people even bother with it half the time. It usually just ends up being a convenient name to throw at some system of belief you just don't happen to like that much...
Well, Rand thought that all should essentially be left alone. That was it. :)
So, within that framework it is quite easy to see how we interact with each other and how our actions have consequences on others. Of course, as we've discussed before, it became quite obvious to me that there is NO action we take that does not affect others. And of course I then recognized that the philosophy is just rather optimistic in nature and there are some among us that will prey upon others -- these people MUST have legislation to ensure that they do not hurt others. Once you start to legislate others actions then it just goes down from there -- where does it stop? Anyway, the philosophy gets swiped at often and it's an easy target. It's optimistic and thinks the best of human nature -- I'm just not so sparkly and happy shiny with the thought that most people are necessarily 'good' folk. There must be limits, and protections for society. Society vs. individual is difficult to sort out as to which preempts.
Michael Shermer (just posted some youtube links down in off-topic from him) consider it a cult and I know some others do as well. The problem with saying it's a cult is that it presupposes (to me) that if you are drawn to the philosophy and accept all aspects of objectivism that you are in a cult. It's absurd.
Ayn Rand herself replied to a fan letter by, "A blind follower is precisely what my philosophy condemns and what I reject."
Last edited by Guest on Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Moniker wrote:Ayn Rand herself replied to a fan letter by, "A blind follower is precisely what my philosophy condemns and what I reject."
Hmmm - yeah. I think that's the kind of language they try to lead you away from in 'Cult leadership 101'! :)
I'm sure I'm probably gonna have all kinds of issues with some of the specifics of the Ayn Rand 'brand' (poet - know it!) of Libertarianism. This line especially...
And of course I then recognized that the philosophy is just rather optimistic in nature and there are some among us that will prey upon others -- these people MUST have legislation to ensure that they do not hurt others.
...my reaction would be of course their has to be laws in place to stop people hurting others against their will. To think otherwise is no version of Libertarianism I've ever considered...
But to call the idea 'cultish'? Well - I think the word 'UN-Libertarian' would be the first word to my mind actually... *shrug*
But I suppose we shouldn't make this into a Libertarian thread! Lets be good... :)
But I suppose we shouldn't make this into a Libertarian thread! Lets be good... :)
I like being 'bad'. ;)
Hey, Bond -- can you split the comments? I suppose all of them. But Moksha's was a nasty lil swipe that got me in bored Friday nite nothing else to do mode. :)