Are these the last days?

[_Sethbag]

Yeah que tal, but there's one thing that's different: if you haven't figured it out yet, since there's no savior coming to make it all right in the end, there's twice as much reason now for us humans to work together to try to get ourselves out of the danger of self-destruction. People who know there's no plan B, no "God will make it all right in the end", who realize that if we blow ourselves up that could well be it, finito for the human race, ought to take these issues a lot more seriously. At least I hope so.

[_ktallamigo]

Sethbag, good point. (you must know Spanish too)

In the evangelical Christian world, I believe they refer to the second coming as the "Rapture." And I understand there is this attitude, that it is okay to exploit the earth, and pollute it, and not worry about environmental damage or climate change because when the Rapture happens everything will all be destroyed anyway, and those of us who are saved will just be taken up with Jesus and the rest will burn. So pollute away!

ktall

[_asbestosman]

People who know there's no plan B, no "God will make it all right in the end", who realize that if we blow ourselves up that could well be it, finito for the human race, ought to take these issues a lot more seriously. At least I hope so.

How do you plan to get humans to stop religious nuts from nuking us all. I don't think it can be done. Either there's a God who will save us, or we decide to all speak Arabic and pray 5 times a day, or we just cease to exist.

[_Sethbag]

Well, we could do a lot better in terms of spreading the "good word" of atheism. I think the only way we will avoid a nuclear holocaust is to ween ourselves from the false worldviews of religion. I think that it may be difficult to achieve this in the muslim world, but perhaps with time, if we can survive long enough, there will be a backlash against the extremists and we'll see change. Just look at Iran. Some religious fanatics may still be in charge right now (and there are surprisingly pragmatic and more moderate forces vying for power there too), but I've read articles saying that the people of Iran itself are actually tired of it and are moving in a direction of desiring more freedom to live as they will, not as the religious police require.

[_Ren]

Some religious fanatics may still be in charge right now (and there are surprisingly pragmatic and more moderate forces vying for power there too), but I've read articles saying that the people of Iran itself are actually tired of it and are moving in a direction of desiring more freedom to live as they will, not as the religious police require.

Hmmm. I just saw a BBC news report last night - from inside Iran. In the reporters estimation, the 'moderate' political forces seemed to be losing their will, after so many years with very little gain.
...lets hope that that isn't really the case...

[_Sam Harris]

Hi Ktall,

Chiming in late as usual. Thank you for posting your views and experiences here. Hopefully you'll find some help on your journey. I want to comment on a few things in your post that touched me.

In fact, I’m not even sure if I believe in God anymore. And that is sad, because a belief in God would really be helpful to me at this point in my life. I just don’t know what I believe in anymore. I'm a very confused person.

I understand that feeling. There are people here who can tell you from their own experiences that a lack of belief in God does not necessarily mean that one's life is miserable. I believe in God, but am undoing the cultural programming that caused me to personify God...much like you did. To me, God is more like a force for good, a common thread that runs through all living things. To me, sin is the denial of this good, which can be manifested in many ways. Ultimately it's up to you to find that place where YOU feel comfortable. Don't let someone else, or someone else's construct determine that for you. You deserve better.

But it is hard to rid one's self of a lifetime’s worth of programming and beliefs. Mormonism is a whole world view.

Indeed. Religion in general is really a worldview. I think one of the most valuable things that my first classes when I started my theology major (which I'm changing...plan to be the senior editor of a hip new magazine!!! LOL) gave me was the knowledge that everyone has a worldview...even us. We Christians (and I use that term lightly with regards to myself) have our own dogma as well.

Mormonism is as much a culture as a religion, and indeed it is hard to de-program yourself from a lifetime of that. It's what you were born and bred into. It's like me trying to deny my family's culture. I may disagree with some of the habits they've adopted, but I can't pull away 100% from who and what they are.

I have always viewed the events and changes in the world with the idea that these are the last days, and viewed the earthquakes, wars, global warming, tsunamis, tornadoes, rising crime rates, perceived increase in immorality, rising divorce rates – as evidence that these are indeed the last days and signs of Christ’s second coming.

Surely during my lifetime, from the radical sixties to the violent wars of the present – the world seems to be following the course outlined in the Bible as “the last days.”

What do you all think? Are these the last days? Is it just coincidence? How does one understand these things outside of the prism of Christianity, or Mormonism? Are they signs of the times?

The "end days" that were written of in the Bible really pertain to the events that happened within the first century. It was the writer's interpretation of what was going on with Rome. Now yes, they did believe that they were living in the end times, but just because the documents with their opinions lasted this long doesn't mean that in this day we have to hold onto that mindset.

I tend to just grab some q-tips when I hear people talking about the end times. We have issues on this rock called home to deal with...serious ones. But people have been climbing mountains waiting for Christ at the turn of two millenium, and several other times throughout history. Perhaps, if there is a kingdom to come, it's within...and we need to stop looking to the sky and introspect.

I hope that you find more peace soon. I remember when I left the church, how emotionally harrowing that felt. I doubted everyone and everything, and yet still felt a need to defend that which I left...and in some senses I still do. I separate LDS inc from LDS people/family/friends. The latter I wil always defend. Unless they have a penis protruding from their foreheads and they do stupid things like try to expose people's personal information that they think are "enemies" of the church...dumb stuff like that.

[_Sam Harris]

People have been saying it's the last days since someone first invented the concept of "last days". From what I understand, the early Christians right after the time of Christ thought they were living in the last days, and it basically hasn't stopped since.

Sethbag said it so much better than me. :-)

[_Inconceivable]

Thanks GIMR and Sethbag.

Sethbag: "if you haven't figured it out yet, since there's no savior coming to make it all right in the end, there's twice as much reason now for us humans to work together to try to get ourselves out of the danger of self-destruction. People who know there's no plan B, no "God will make it all right in the end", who realize that if we blow ourselves up that could well be it, finito for the human race, ought to take these issues a lot more seriously."

GIMR: "I believe in God, but am undoing the cultural programming that caused me to personify God...much like you did. To me, God is more like a force for good, a common thread that runs through all living things. To me, sin is the denial of this good, which can be manifested in many ways."