Proof that faith in the unseen is dangerous to us all

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_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

The anti-environmentalism in conservative christianity befuddles me.


Depends on what you mean by 'environmentalist'. Most would label me as an ultra convervative Christian yet I have no problem with clean water, clean air, clean land and the wise use of resources.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

bcspace wrote:
The anti-environmentalism in conservative christianity befuddles me.


Depends on what you mean by 'environmentalist'. Most would label me as an ultra convervative Christian yet I have no problem with clean water, clean air, clean land and the wise use of resources.


I wish Coggins would rejoin. I'm interested to see if he links his religious beliefs with his anti-environmentalist beliefs. I know Tarski was drawing the parallel the last few days and it was startling for me to consider that anyone would think we could do as we willed with the earth because of their religious beliefs.
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

I'm interested to see if he links his religious beliefs with his anti-environmentalist beliefs


Wouldn't suprise me. LDS doctrine is inherently anti-evironmentalist in the typical political sense.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

I did some digging this morning because it bugged me that I couldn't remember what I had heard as the justification for anti-environmentalism. What I had actually heard on Jesus Camp wasn't anti-environmentalism in general, but complete disbelief in global warming in particular. What amazed me wasn't that some people don't believe in global warming, because it is a difficult issue to accept because of the moral responsibility that accompanies it, but that they seemed to view the refusal to believe in global warming (as a result of human activity) as part of their religious dogma. That is what completely befuddled me. WTF? How does global warming become part of religious dogma?

Here's what I found to explain it, and it turns out bond is correct, and I was also correct in my vague memory:

http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004 ... christian/

Many Christian fundamentalists feel that concern for the future of our planet is irrelevant, because it has no future. They believe we are living in the End Time, when the son of God will return, the righteous will enter heaven, and sinners will be condemned to eternal hellfire. They may also believe, along with millions of other Christian fundamentalists, that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed -- even hastened -- as a sign of the coming Apocalypse.


Many End-Timers believe that until Jesus' return, the Lord will provide. In America's Providential History, a popular reconstructionist high-school history textbook, authors Mark Beliles and Stephen McDowell tell us that: "The secular or socialist has a limited resource mentality and views the world as a pie ... that needs to be cut up so everyone can get a piece." However, "the Christian knows that the potential in God is unlimited and that there is no shortage of resources in God's Earth. The resources are waiting to be tapped." In another passage, the writers explain: "While many secularists view the world as overpopulated, Christians know that God has made the earth sufficiently large with plenty of resources to accommodate all of the people."

Natural-resource depletion and overpopulation, then, are not concerns for End-Timers -- and nor are other ecological catastrophes, which are viewed by dispensationalists as presaging the Great Tribulation. Support for this view comes from an 11-word passage in Matthew 24:7: "[T]here shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places." Other End-Timers see suggestions of ecological meltdown in Revelation's four horsemen of the Apocalypse -- War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death -- and they cite a verse mentioning costly wheat, barley, and oil as foretelling food and fossil-fuel shortages. During the End Time, the four horsemen shall be "given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth." Some End-Timers note that Revelation 8:8-11 predicts a fiery mountain falling into the sea and causing great destruction, followed by a blazing star plummeting from the sky. This star is called "Wormwood," which dispensationalists say translates loosely in Ukrainian as "Chernobyl."


And from another site:
Now, however, there is the emerging Christian anti-environmentalism I have documented in this paper. The presumed biblical support for this position is currently found primarily in Beisner's work; Burkett does not offer biblical support for his views. For example, Beisner cites biblical passages that encourage procreation opposing those Christians who might claim that continued population growth is a problem, and concludes that "no state ought to discourage fertility," and that Christians are those "who count it a blessing to be fruitful and multiply."34
Beisner also offers presumed biblical support for his views on resources, deriving many theological and moral standards to be applied to the management of resources. From those principles, Beisner reasons that: (1) " man, not the environment, is primary." If the environment is to be protected, such protection is "for the sake of man, not for its own sake. Anything else is idolatry of nature."35 (2) "no entity, private or public, has proper authority to restrict others' use of property." Thus, "Planning and control of resource use should be left to the owners of the resources."36 Beisner favors a minimization of state ownership of resources, and a maximization of private ownership and therefore liberty to make use of God's good provision of the earth's bounty.


http://www.asa3.org/aSA/PSCF/1995/PSCF6-95Wright.html

Here we see the anti-environmentalism in action:



"I am today raising a flag of opposition to this alarmism about global warming and urging all believers to refuse to be duped by these 'earthism' worshippers," the Rev. Jerry Falwell said in a Feb. 25 sermon on "The Myth of Global Warming" at his Lynchburg, Va., church.


So it's a combination of a couple of things: the view that changing human action for the sole purpose of preserving the environment is a form of "nature idolatry", the view that Jesus is coming anyway and it won't matter, and the view that the results of environmental destruction may actually be predicted in the Bible and hence should not be stopped.

Scary, indeed. I have often thought what a cruel trick of fate it has been that, at the time when we need to become aggressive and proactive in regards to global warming to avoid the tipping point, we had a religious extremist as a president who deliberately fought against such needed action. It may end up being the worse, most lethal part about Bush's presidency.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

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_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

So they see being responsible about recycling and lobbying so businesses can't dump toxic waste into our rivers and oceans as worshipping the earth instead of God?

Oh boy, that's really out there.
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

The man in the original post seems to have a very limited view of revelation. The Prophet has not spoken on this issue therefore it is a non-issue.

Why not ask God yourself about the issue? What happened to personal responsibility here? That whole revelation can be sought by everyone thing? I mean, c'mon. I'm guessing there are dozens if not hundreds of things the person in question believes and/or does that the Prophets have also been silent on.

The danger in this kind of thinking is spiritually dangerous. Those who cannot rule themselves but need to be held by the hand of others and given explicit instructions to get things done will never be exalted because they can't act without someone else leading them.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

beastie wrote:
I could have sworn on that Jesus Camp video was a segment of a conservative radio guy saying that raping the planet was good because it would hasten the return of Jesus. But maybe I was just imagining things. *shrugs*



I think you may be right. Whatever it was, it was utterly bizarre, and defied all reason.


I thought that Jesus Camp was a fascinating, disquieting, and utterly compelling film. by the way: did the head, female pastor remind anyone else of juliann? (I.e., I imagine that juliann very much resembles this woman....)
_Tarski
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Post by _Tarski »

The Nehor wrote: What happened to personal responsibility here? .

I was wondering the same thing.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

Okay......... so I did know that SOME Christians had a view of an anthropocentric God... yet, that some ACTUALLY believe it and then conclude that they can do as they will with the earth scares the hell out of me! I just didn't want to say that... maybe...... :)

I'm really just posting so I can put this song on the thread!

Bad Religion God Song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3EL3ja7fLQ
_sunstoned
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Re: Proof that faith in the unseen is dangerous to us all

Post by _sunstoned »

I am not saying we shouldn't be good stewards. But I think it's interesting that if the environment is such a threat as it is that the Lord has not revealed it to anyone.


This is laughable. Since when has the Mormon god, through his so called modern day prophets, warned anyone of anything (outside of number of earrings it takesto be evil)?

The Martin handcart company could have used a little warning. So could have the victims Katrina and the Asian Tsunami. Even GBH could have used a little forewarning before he spent all that tithing money on the Hoffman forgeries.

To say its not a threat because the prophet hasn't worked it into his conference talk yet is stupid reasoning.
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