Merc? Are you really an LDS in disguise acting like a total jackass in order to make the LDS church look better by comparison?
If so, then I praise your efforts.....no, I can't lie here. I would still dislike you.
Does Dr. Shades *really* believe "we all want the truth
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_The Nehor
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am
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_Tal Bachman
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 484
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:05 pm
quaker wrote:Wow, how humiliating for Mercury to be called a defender.
After all the time and effort he puts into mocking the LDS and the church on this forum he gets labeled a defender.
I offer you my shoulder to cry on.
I guess that was my mistake. In tone, pedantry, etc., he sure sounded like a church defender.
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_Bond...James Bond
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:49 am
KimberlyAnn wrote:Christopher K. Salmon is an extremely intelligent and capable critic of Mormonism, though his name does look a bit General Authority-ish with his middle initial included like that...
KA
The middle initial stands for "Kelly" by the way, I don't think he'd be a good GA unless he changes it so something like "Kelgor" or somethin.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
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_KimberlyAnn
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- Posts: 3171
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Bond...James Bond wrote:KimberlyAnn wrote:Christopher K. Salmon is an extremely intelligent and capable critic of Mormonism, though his name does look a bit General Authority-ish with his middle initial included like that...
KA
The middle initial stands for "Kelly" by the way, I don't think he'd be a good GA unless he changes it so something like "Kelgor" or somethin.
Bond, do you honestly think I don't know that man's middle name?!
Also, if he changes his middle name to something else beginning with "K", it should be Kimbers. :P
Nah. It should be a Wilco song beginning with "K", like Kamera or Kingpin. Christopher Kingpin Salmon. That definitely doesn't sound like a GA name!
KA
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_Bond...James Bond
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 4627
- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:49 am
KimberlyAnn wrote:Bond...James Bond wrote:KimberlyAnn wrote:Christopher K. Salmon is an extremely intelligent and capable critic of Mormonism, though his name does look a bit General Authority-ish with his middle initial included like that...
KA
The middle initial stands for "Kelly" by the way, I don't think he'd be a good GA unless he changes it so something like "Kelgor" or somethin.
Bond, do you honestly think I don't know that man's middle name?!
Also, if he changes his middle name to something else beginning with "K", it should be Kimbers. :P
Nah. It should be a Wilco song beginning with "K", like Kamera or Kingpin. Christopher Kingpin Salmon. That definitely doesn't sound like a GA name!
KA
I meant it for the board in general, and just quoted your post cause I'm stupid :).
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
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_KimberlyAnn
- _Emeritus
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_Nightingale
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:31 am
Late reply to Merc and solo:
NG:
”It does irk me to see exmos chanting the same refrain as TBMs and trolls. On this and other things. I will speak up on that, yes.”
Merc:
"We chant it because we see the same controlled artificial environment at RFM that we did in the church. RFM is triage for new exmos but its too much of a controlled environment. I think Stan Marsh can attest to how long it takes for a thread to get banned."
Ahh. I begin to see what you mean. I think a lot of us will just have to agree to disagree on it. I just see a board that has a clear purpose that gets moderated to stay on track for that. It is perfectly understandable that as people transition further away from Mormonism, and especially as they find fellow exmo compatriots, they eventually grow beyond RfM. I don't see that as a condemnation of RfM (which cannot be all things to all people all the time, an impossible ideal) but rather as a natural course of events for most exmos and a great incentive for other boards to spring up to meet the differing needs as has, indeed, happened. My usual main point in this recurring discussion is that as we grow and change and seek new arenas, that does not mean there is something wrong with a place we transitioned through. If people like it, they stay longer (or forever in some cases, lol) and if not they seek out other venues. Either way is cool. RfM doesn't have different rooms for people in various stages of exiting the Mormon Church but primarily reaches out to the newbie ex'er. As exmos get through the first stages and find that RfM doesn't meet their changing needs as much it's great that there are other places, like the social board and this one, for them to move on to. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with RfM but it's just a function of how we grow and change and move on to new things. That is pretty much the point I keep trying to make. There is no one true board and I doubt that anyone tries to guarantee that there is - an exercise in futility if ever there was one.
As for your reference to Stan Marsh, I'm sorry, I don't get your point as I don't know who that is or what the story is there.
NG to solo:
"I find most of your comments to be inaccurate, not evidence-based, repetitious and never backed up by you when questioned."
Solo:
"I don't tolerate censorship at any level. Especially the most harmless ones getting scratched by lower minds. I see absolutely no reason to scratching someone's innocent thought with no good reason."
Ahh. OK. So I guess we differ on what "censorship" is. That could be what you keep complaining about and I've only just figured that out. To my surprise, I still disagree with you. Having guidelines to help a discussion board run well is not "censorship", at least in the way you seem to mean. If having rules and seeing that they are followed by all for the group's benefit is censorship then you would have to apply that charge to even Shades' board (where posters are instructed and expected to place topics and content in the correct location; if they do not, a moderator will do it for them). Is that censorship solo? Not in my view, it's just board maintenance to ensure smooth operation.
When you talk about harmless and innocent thoughts getting scratched, this is where I disagree with your take on it because I have not seen that in several years of participating at RfM. That is why I asked for "evidence" as in a concrete example such as "I said such-and-so and my comment was deleted". Otherwise, your accusation is not proven that your comments are harmless or innocent and for no reason you keep getting deleted. That is the part I was asking for some evidence about because I just have not seen that and don't think that RfM mods are just sitting there waiting to torture you when you show up. I could be wrong, however. That is why I ask for some examples that I could observe or check or otherwise verify somehow. In fact, I have had posts deleted there and I just email Admin to ask why (if I can't figure it out). That has helped me somewhat to understand the why of a few things.
Solo:
"by the way......You are Canadian Nigthingale.....
You should know know better than help to silence free thought!!!!!!"
What does being Canadian have to do with it? :)
And please tell me how I "help to silence free thought"? I don't think so, solo, really I don't.
For the record, for those who may not visit RfM, there is an absolute ban on politics and the board owner has explained why several times in the past. For one, discussing politics is not the purpose of the board and secondly, he has personal reasons which he has shared previously but I don't feel comfortable stating them for him - I'll leave that to him if and when. But surely it should suffice for the owner of a board to say there are some topics that are not welcome here for personal reasons of mine - is that not enough of an explanation and enough for participants in a free-of-charge venue to respect the owner's preferences?
solo:
(to another poster, not NG): "Would you be kind & forgive my foul language. (it wasn't relly me, I wrote it over couple tequila shots)"
Ahh. I will bear this in mind in the future as there's not a lot of point in spending time discussing comments that perhaps you don't really mean or that don't make sense.
solo:
"by the way Nightingale, Yea I'm a whiner, you're damn right."
I don't actually recall calling you a whiner, solo. I don't usually make that type of comment.
solo:
At least here someone sees I'm whining like a baby. Over there AT RFM, they just push "Delete" button. Of course.. I mean.. who the hell am I? I need to cry and feel so helpless that nobody pays attention to me. Oh wait I see a great post there by Cheryl.... How stupid, bigoted, over generalized comments she makes about Mormons...of course your'e right, there is no favoritism.... she's part of the 'Team'"
I don't get this so I don't know what to say.
solo:
"And no evidence to back-up my claims? Now this Q. takes the cake.. How do you suggest me to show you some evidence if they delete them right off getgo?"
I didn't say there is no evidence. I said you don't give any evidence. I have read innumerable comments from you about how much you dislike RfM. The solution would seem to be obvious. I assume you keep going back as you do want to participate - why else bother, if you hate it so much? So, given that, I see a few options for you. One, you could keep a copy of your post and perhaps the entire thread it's on and if you get deleted and feel that it is unwarranted or unfair, you could email Admin and ask them why that happened. Two, you could just accept that there are some things that will get you deleted - 1) discussing politics, even peripherally; 2) answering a troll, even inadvertently (the troll's post goes along with any responses); 3) choosing a topic that is not allowed (e.g., world events) or anything likely to lead into the arena of forbidden topics (such as discussing Romney right now that inevitably gets political). Three, you could accept that that is the way Eric wants to run his board, even though it doesn't match up with all your personal preferences; 4) You could use a variety of venues to discuss the various mo-related topics - if one board doesn't meet all our needs, a variety of them may - kind of like indulging in an exmo-smorgasbord; 5) Other options I haven't thought of.
solo:
"I didn't write this to hijack Tal's post, Actually I did enjoy reading him, Steve, many others."
Yeah, sorry Tal. I was going to make a new thread for this but I see that innumerable other people have done likewise so I just stayed here. Besides, from what I see, Tal is pretty laid back about things like that. If I had anything useful to say about his original content, I would do so but...
solo:
"Sorry if I act little pissed. In general I blame them for chasing good writers away."
I wouldn't just assume that is what happens - I would want to hear it from those people themselves. I think, as I said, it is inevitable that people will pass through RfM and move on. I selfishly don't like it when that happens as yeah, there have been some incredible posters who have written memorable posts there. But it's part of life to expect and embrace change. We have to just enjoy things while they last.
I'm sorry you're not happy there, solo, but I can't do anything except try in discussion to isolate what the problem may be, if there is one, and hope that perhaps seeing things from a different perspective might make a difference. One thing is for sure - I've never seen anyone change anything there by complaining incessantly and criticizing unmercifully. I've seen the mods here comment about how much work it is - you can multiply that workload many times, I'm sure, when it comes to the very busy RfM board. A little valour wouldn't go amiss in the form of trying to help rather than being negative all the time. As for criticism, I have seen Eric thank posters for their suggestions and questions. It's not that criticism is not welcome, in my observation, but how it's done that is important.
Hey, we're all exmos (except for any LDS readers, few and far between I'd say) and so we have a lot of common ground. I do find it unfortunate that some exmos add fuel to the LDS fire when they call RfM a "cesspool" and continually criticize it and its Admin. It could be worthwhile stepping back and seeing it from a different angle. I see far more posts that offer wise advice and understanding support than anything else there. If it truly were a cesspool I think I'd notice and it wouldn't be the kind of place that warms my heart, as it does. Just say you have a question or a problem and generally people line up to assist. I think that's worth a lot.
Sorry again, Tal. I'll step away now.
Nightingale
not an RfM apologist, just a happy participant there and wish you wouldn't miss out
NG:
”It does irk me to see exmos chanting the same refrain as TBMs and trolls. On this and other things. I will speak up on that, yes.”
Merc:
"We chant it because we see the same controlled artificial environment at RFM that we did in the church. RFM is triage for new exmos but its too much of a controlled environment. I think Stan Marsh can attest to how long it takes for a thread to get banned."
Ahh. I begin to see what you mean. I think a lot of us will just have to agree to disagree on it. I just see a board that has a clear purpose that gets moderated to stay on track for that. It is perfectly understandable that as people transition further away from Mormonism, and especially as they find fellow exmo compatriots, they eventually grow beyond RfM. I don't see that as a condemnation of RfM (which cannot be all things to all people all the time, an impossible ideal) but rather as a natural course of events for most exmos and a great incentive for other boards to spring up to meet the differing needs as has, indeed, happened. My usual main point in this recurring discussion is that as we grow and change and seek new arenas, that does not mean there is something wrong with a place we transitioned through. If people like it, they stay longer (or forever in some cases, lol) and if not they seek out other venues. Either way is cool. RfM doesn't have different rooms for people in various stages of exiting the Mormon Church but primarily reaches out to the newbie ex'er. As exmos get through the first stages and find that RfM doesn't meet their changing needs as much it's great that there are other places, like the social board and this one, for them to move on to. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with RfM but it's just a function of how we grow and change and move on to new things. That is pretty much the point I keep trying to make. There is no one true board and I doubt that anyone tries to guarantee that there is - an exercise in futility if ever there was one.
As for your reference to Stan Marsh, I'm sorry, I don't get your point as I don't know who that is or what the story is there.
NG to solo:
"I find most of your comments to be inaccurate, not evidence-based, repetitious and never backed up by you when questioned."
Solo:
"I don't tolerate censorship at any level. Especially the most harmless ones getting scratched by lower minds. I see absolutely no reason to scratching someone's innocent thought with no good reason."
Ahh. OK. So I guess we differ on what "censorship" is. That could be what you keep complaining about and I've only just figured that out. To my surprise, I still disagree with you. Having guidelines to help a discussion board run well is not "censorship", at least in the way you seem to mean. If having rules and seeing that they are followed by all for the group's benefit is censorship then you would have to apply that charge to even Shades' board (where posters are instructed and expected to place topics and content in the correct location; if they do not, a moderator will do it for them). Is that censorship solo? Not in my view, it's just board maintenance to ensure smooth operation.
When you talk about harmless and innocent thoughts getting scratched, this is where I disagree with your take on it because I have not seen that in several years of participating at RfM. That is why I asked for "evidence" as in a concrete example such as "I said such-and-so and my comment was deleted". Otherwise, your accusation is not proven that your comments are harmless or innocent and for no reason you keep getting deleted. That is the part I was asking for some evidence about because I just have not seen that and don't think that RfM mods are just sitting there waiting to torture you when you show up. I could be wrong, however. That is why I ask for some examples that I could observe or check or otherwise verify somehow. In fact, I have had posts deleted there and I just email Admin to ask why (if I can't figure it out). That has helped me somewhat to understand the why of a few things.
Solo:
"by the way......You are Canadian Nigthingale.....
You should know know better than help to silence free thought!!!!!!"
What does being Canadian have to do with it? :)
And please tell me how I "help to silence free thought"? I don't think so, solo, really I don't.
For the record, for those who may not visit RfM, there is an absolute ban on politics and the board owner has explained why several times in the past. For one, discussing politics is not the purpose of the board and secondly, he has personal reasons which he has shared previously but I don't feel comfortable stating them for him - I'll leave that to him if and when. But surely it should suffice for the owner of a board to say there are some topics that are not welcome here for personal reasons of mine - is that not enough of an explanation and enough for participants in a free-of-charge venue to respect the owner's preferences?
solo:
(to another poster, not NG): "Would you be kind & forgive my foul language. (it wasn't relly me, I wrote it over couple tequila shots)"
Ahh. I will bear this in mind in the future as there's not a lot of point in spending time discussing comments that perhaps you don't really mean or that don't make sense.
solo:
"by the way Nightingale, Yea I'm a whiner, you're damn right."
I don't actually recall calling you a whiner, solo. I don't usually make that type of comment.
solo:
At least here someone sees I'm whining like a baby. Over there AT RFM, they just push "Delete" button. Of course.. I mean.. who the hell am I? I need to cry and feel so helpless that nobody pays attention to me. Oh wait I see a great post there by Cheryl.... How stupid, bigoted, over generalized comments she makes about Mormons...of course your'e right, there is no favoritism.... she's part of the 'Team'"
I don't get this so I don't know what to say.
solo:
"And no evidence to back-up my claims? Now this Q. takes the cake.. How do you suggest me to show you some evidence if they delete them right off getgo?"
I didn't say there is no evidence. I said you don't give any evidence. I have read innumerable comments from you about how much you dislike RfM. The solution would seem to be obvious. I assume you keep going back as you do want to participate - why else bother, if you hate it so much? So, given that, I see a few options for you. One, you could keep a copy of your post and perhaps the entire thread it's on and if you get deleted and feel that it is unwarranted or unfair, you could email Admin and ask them why that happened. Two, you could just accept that there are some things that will get you deleted - 1) discussing politics, even peripherally; 2) answering a troll, even inadvertently (the troll's post goes along with any responses); 3) choosing a topic that is not allowed (e.g., world events) or anything likely to lead into the arena of forbidden topics (such as discussing Romney right now that inevitably gets political). Three, you could accept that that is the way Eric wants to run his board, even though it doesn't match up with all your personal preferences; 4) You could use a variety of venues to discuss the various mo-related topics - if one board doesn't meet all our needs, a variety of them may - kind of like indulging in an exmo-smorgasbord; 5) Other options I haven't thought of.
solo:
"I didn't write this to hijack Tal's post, Actually I did enjoy reading him, Steve, many others."
Yeah, sorry Tal. I was going to make a new thread for this but I see that innumerable other people have done likewise so I just stayed here. Besides, from what I see, Tal is pretty laid back about things like that. If I had anything useful to say about his original content, I would do so but...
solo:
"Sorry if I act little pissed. In general I blame them for chasing good writers away."
I wouldn't just assume that is what happens - I would want to hear it from those people themselves. I think, as I said, it is inevitable that people will pass through RfM and move on. I selfishly don't like it when that happens as yeah, there have been some incredible posters who have written memorable posts there. But it's part of life to expect and embrace change. We have to just enjoy things while they last.
I'm sorry you're not happy there, solo, but I can't do anything except try in discussion to isolate what the problem may be, if there is one, and hope that perhaps seeing things from a different perspective might make a difference. One thing is for sure - I've never seen anyone change anything there by complaining incessantly and criticizing unmercifully. I've seen the mods here comment about how much work it is - you can multiply that workload many times, I'm sure, when it comes to the very busy RfM board. A little valour wouldn't go amiss in the form of trying to help rather than being negative all the time. As for criticism, I have seen Eric thank posters for their suggestions and questions. It's not that criticism is not welcome, in my observation, but how it's done that is important.
Hey, we're all exmos (except for any LDS readers, few and far between I'd say) and so we have a lot of common ground. I do find it unfortunate that some exmos add fuel to the LDS fire when they call RfM a "cesspool" and continually criticize it and its Admin. It could be worthwhile stepping back and seeing it from a different angle. I see far more posts that offer wise advice and understanding support than anything else there. If it truly were a cesspool I think I'd notice and it wouldn't be the kind of place that warms my heart, as it does. Just say you have a question or a problem and generally people line up to assist. I think that's worth a lot.
Sorry again, Tal. I'll step away now.
Nightingale
not an RfM apologist, just a happy participant there and wish you wouldn't miss out