Polygamy caller found

[_asbestosman]

I might also strike the word principles from there since I believe that it's fine to disagree with the government so long as you do not break the law in doing so (I disagree with the government about the legality of marijuana, but I don't have any and in fact I don't want any).

Although teaching that one should break the law might be different than merely teaching that the law is wrong.

Eugene Volokh, a UCLA law professor, said courts have generally held that a parent's belief system cannot, in itself, justify a child's removal. He said, for example, that a parent might teach his child that smoking marijuana is acceptable, but only when he helps the child buy pot does he cross the line.

from:
Expert: Polygamists' belief system is abusive

[_the road to hana]

Eugene Volokh, a UCLA law professor, said courts have generally held that a parent's belief system cannot, in itself, justify a child's removal. He said, for example, that a parent might teach his child that smoking marijuana is acceptable, but only when he helps the child buy pot does he cross the line.

from:
Expert: Polygamists' belief system is abusive

That might differ from belief that includes the direct abuse of a child, which would be the case with underage sex.

Teaching a child in theory that polygamy is acceptable or even desirable would be different from engaging in the practice of imposing underage sexual acts on a minor.

[_asbestosman]

Teaching a child in theory that polygamy is acceptable or even desirable would be different from engaging in the practice of imposing underage sexual acts on a minor.

Absolutely. Warren Jeffs is being justly punished for that.

But preparing a kid for that by teaching them to follow the prophet and actually having the kid do it, well, are those separate issues in the law?

[_the road to hana]

Teaching a child in theory that polygamy is acceptable or even desirable would be different from engaging in the practice of imposing underage sexual acts on a minor.

Absolutely. Warren Jeffs is being justly punished for that.

But preparing a kid for that by teaching them to follow the prophet and actually having the kid do it, well, are those separate issues in the law?

If you're asking are theory and practice separate issues in the law, the answer would be yes. However, this is a situation where apparently the state perceives all children to be at potential risk for either being subject to or perpetrating rape of a minor.

[_Tal Bachman]

Hi Road

Having seen more on this today, I think you are probably right that even without the phone call, there would have been probable cause for a search or investigation. I'm not sure there was probably cause for a full-tilt, sweeping round-up of every child in the community, though. That seems outrageous to me, no matter how frigging weird they all seem.

Maybe I'd feel differently if there was solid evidence that nearly everyone in the whole place was participating in ritual statutory rape, but I don't know that there is that.

Pretty crazy episode.

[_the road to hana]

Hi Road

Having seen more on this today, I think you are probably right that even without the phone call, there would have been probable cause for a search or investigation. I'm not sure there was probably cause for a full-tilt, sweeping round-up of every child in the community, though. That seems outrageous to me, no matter how frigging weird they all seem.

Maybe I'd feel differently if there was solid evidence that nearly everyone in the whole place was participating in ritual statutory rape, but I don't know that there is that.

Keep in mind they had been working with an inside informant for the past four years.

I think the YFZ Ranch compound has come under different scrutiny because it represented an evolution in Warren Jeffs' takeover of the group and different practices taking place there (building a temple, for example) that hadn't previously. People were essentially being "drafted" to live in the compound in Texas and were being snuck in and out of the ranch back to communities like Colorado City.

Stuff like the serious genetic problems being encountered by the in- and cross-breeding were already well known in the scientific and medical community. So if they can take this opportunity to get everyone's DNA and try to sort things out it will be helpful. In this country, when children being raised by people other than their biological parents, generally the government is aware of that (are they family members? foster family? adoptive parents?).

Making this about religion is only correct on the level that the religious beliefs inform the abuse or neglect of the children.