Dinosaurs? Did They Go On Noah's Ark Too? Earth is How Old?

[_Gazelam]

Harmony,

Moksha has a great little graph that shows the various Flood Traditions from vastly different cultures that all tell the same story. Since you have no faith in scripture perhaps you can use that as something to reconstruct your faith on.

Gaz

[_harmony]

Chap,

I'm no geologist. Who knows how things got stirred up during the flood. Some say that during the flood the continents were seperated from a Pangea. That would be fairly catastrophic I would say.

Also I don't fully understand what all was involved in the creation and organization of the earth. We know it was created in stages and layers, but beyond that theres alot of gray areas.

What we do know is that the Fall brought death into the world for the first time, and we can operate and view other things from that solid ground.

Gaz

And how do we know there was a Fall? What evidence do we have that Adam existed?

[_Chap]

Chap,

I'm no geologist.

I don't want to seem rude, but that does not dispense you from having to take the evidence and arguments produced by many decades of careful scientific investigation and argument into account.

Who knows how things got stirred up during the flood. Some say that during the flood the continents were seperated from a Pangea. That would be fairly catastrophic I would say.

Geologists argue that Pangaea (one of a series of supercontinents in the earth's history) began to break up 180 million years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea

The arguments that back that up are multi-tracked, but one simple fact to appreciate is that you can look at the current rate at which the continents are moving. It is far too slow for them to have been together only a few thousand years ago.

People who try to bring the break-up of Pangaea into a narrative on a biblical time-scale simply don't understand the science.

[_Gazelam]

Harmony,

And how do we know there was a Fall? What evidence do we have that Adam existed?

Without a Fall there woud be no need for Christ. Adam is listed in numerous geneologies, and also we have the testimonies of the prophets.

[_Gadianton]

Moniker,

When I was a teenager, I (claimed to) believe in all kinds of weird things, including the earth only being a few thousand years old. A friend of mine who (claimed to) believe all the stuff I did had a pamphlet or something that argued dinosaurs lived on the earth at the same time as man, and that "scientists" had found rock strata or something with dinosaur and human footprints together. There were some Old Testament references as well, on in Job I think, showing dinasours coexisted with humans. Don't remember if it talked about how they died.

[_EAllusion]

Moniker,

When I was a teenager, I (claimed to) believe in all kinds of weird things, including the earth only being a few thousand years old. A friend of mine who (claimed to) believe all the stuff I did had a pamphlet or something that argued dinosaurs lived on the earth at the same time as man, and that "scientists" had found rock strata or something with dinosaur and human footprints together. There were some Old Testament references as well, on in Job I think, showing dinasours coexisted with humans. Don't remember if it talked about how they died.

That's probably reference to the "Paluxy footprints" case. It used to be very popular among creationists into the 80's. It still is commonly passed along in young earth creationist circles.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/onheel.html

[_harmony]

Harmony,

And how do we know there was a Fall? What evidence do we have that Adam existed?

Without a Fall there woud be no need for Christ. Adam is listed in numerous geneologies, and also we have the testimonies of the prophets.

The testimonies of the prophets are as useful as tits on a boar pig, when it comes to real events and real people.

[_Roger Morrison]

Gaz wrote:

Without a Fall there woud be no need for Christ.

Interesting statement GAZ. Might that be the reason establishment Christian churches do not teach the ways-and-means of Peace as taught by Jesus, the Man of Peace? But defer to war-mongers and Mammon seekers???

Thanks for making it all make sense. Now, since there really is no fall, except as imagined in the minds of dark-age Christians, and you have just let Jesus off the hook, i guess we are now ready for intelligence, science and empathy to take humanity into Peace and Justice. Certainly religion, that includes LDSism, hasn't done it... Warm regards, Roger

[_Sethbag]

Harmony,

And how do we know there was a Fall? What evidence do we have that Adam existed?

Without a Fall there woud be no need for Christ. Adam is listed in numerous geneologies, and also we have the testimonies of the prophets.

1) You're right, there is no need for Christ.

2) The geneologies are part of the whole mythology. There was no "first man" 6000ish years ago, and the stories that say there was are myths.

3) The prophets clearly do not know what they're talking about. Noah's Flood, 6000 year old human race, etc. are really good examples of things the prophets teach which are simply rubbish.

And, on a geological note, recall the tsunami that wiped out hundreds of thousands of people in Asia 4 years ago. That was caused by some plates that slipped with respect to each other by a few feet. Now imagine that Pangea separates into continents that are thousands of miles apart. Can you try to imagine how much energy that would release if this were done in the time of, say, Noah's Flood? The plates that were moving away from each other would suffer from catastrophic volcanism, and the plates that were hitting each other would be in a constant state of like a zillion on the richter scale. Human life on Earth would not be possible under such a scenario, in the ark or out of it.

Gaz, I know you're committed, mentally, to an understanding of the world as seen through the lens of your scriptures. I'm just telling you, and trying to help you see, that the scriptures are not correct on these matters, or indeed on any matters, IMHO. They are simply wrong, and the reason why they are wrong is that they were written by people who had no flippin' clue what they were talking about. This is absolutely true, Gaz. I know there's very little chance you'll actually adjust your faith based on what I say, but if there's even the faintest hint of a chance that you will, I hope you'll take it.

[_Roger Morrison]

Harmony,

And how do we know there was a Fall? What evidence do we have that Adam existed?

Without a Fall there woud be no need for Christ. Adam is listed in numerous geneologies, and also we have the testimonies of the prophets.

1) You're right, there is no need for Christ.

2) The geneologies are part of the whole mythology. There was no "first man" 6000ish years ago, and the stories that say there was are myths.

3) The prophets clearly do not know what they're talking about. Noah's Flood, 6000 year old human race, etc. are really good examples of things the prophets teach which are simply rubbish.

And, on a geological note, recall the tsunami that wiped out hundreds of thousands of people in Asia 4 years ago. That was caused by some plates that slipped with respect to each other by a few feet. Now imagine that Pangea separates into continents that are thousands of miles apart. Can you try to imagine how much energy that would release if this were done in the time of, say, Noah's Flood? The plates that were moving away from each other would suffer from catastrophic volcanism, and the plates that were hitting each other would be in a constant state of like a zillion on the richter scale. Human life on Earth would not be possible under such a scenario, in the ark or out of it.

Gaz, I know you're committed, mentally, to an understanding of the world as seen through the lens of your scriptures. I'm just telling you, and trying to help you see, that the scriptures are not correct on these matters, or indeed on any matters, IMHO. They are simply wrong, and the reason why they are wrong is that they were written by people who had no flippin' clue what they were talking about. This is absolutely true, Gaz. I know there's very little chance you'll actually adjust your faith based on what I say, but if there's even the faintest hint of a chance that you will, I hope you'll take it.

Seth i sense your exasperation. THE hope is Gaz's kids will see the absurdities of it all and leave with understanding, while not accepting LDSism, as my grandchildren--honest, ethical and moral--have done. Unfortunate reality that indoctrination is so effective with some. But IF Gaz is happy does it matter what he believes, any more than what we believe? I think Gaz is the kind of guy who'd stop to see if he could help, if he thought someone was in need... The best anyone can do. Warm regards, Roger