Lou Midgley: An LDS "Capo"?

[Guest]

...national expert on buggery

Is buggery another name for entomology? I didn't realize Quinn was an entomologist as well as an historian. Never mind, I'll sod-off now.

[_Mister Scratch]

As I have noted before in this thread, it was Quinn's excommunication that killed his career as a university professor, pure and simple. Mormon Studies is coming into its own much like Jewish Studies did, with no small amount of self-laudatory, "gee, isn't it great to be an "X," spirit about it. There is no way that a community like the LDS community would support a perceived (however wrongly) enemy in an academic position of this type. Unfortunately, it has long been the case that the preferred candidates for academic positions dealing with a particular tradition were expected to belong within the boundaries of the community, as though insiders are always the best scholars to comment on a tradition.

I see what you're saying, Trevor, and largely agree with you. However, I nonetheless feel that apologists helped play a role in the build-up leading to Quinn's excommunication. They would have been the ones sounding the first "alarms" about the "dangers" in his writings.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

It didn't seem to bother Dr. Quinn at the time. He didn't even appear for his trial.

Quinn has written about his reasons for not attending. He believed the verdict was predetermined (and had evidence the entire proceeding was held at the direction of BKP). In essence, it would be a 'kangaroo court.' Besides, Quinn was not ex'ed for the original reason given (apostasy, based on his writings), but on insubordination (due to his failure to show up after being directed to do so by his SP).

I have the greatest respect for Dr. Quinn.

BS.

And it wasn't a foregone conclusion; Grant Palmer appeared for his trial and was not excommunicated.

Palmer was saved by the negative press reaction, and also the fact that the SP extorted Palmer's promise to keep is mouth shut publicly in exchange for not being ex'ed.

[_rcrocket]

It didn't seem to bother Dr. Quinn at the time. He didn't even appear for his trial.

Quinn has written about his reasons for not attending. He believed the verdict was predetermined (and had evidence the entire proceeding was held at the direction of BKP). In essence, it would be a 'kangaroo court.' Besides, Quinn was not ex'ed for the original reason given (apostasy, based on his writings), but on insubordination (due to his failure to show up after being directed to do so by his SP).

I have the greatest respect for Dr. Quinn.

BS.

Such presumption. I guess I'll just have to stop relying upon and citing him, won't I? That will be a tough habit to break after all these years.

Who is saying it was a "kangaroo court?" Quinn? You're relying solely upon one-sided evidence? Tsk tsk.

In his Sunstone presentation he explicitly conceded that he did not accept the policies and doctrines of the Church in the two sentences following his statement that he would have rather that he hadn't been excommunicated. He has conceded the point. Fully.

And it wasn't a foregone conclusion; Grant Palmer appeared for his trial and was not excommunicated.

Palmer was saved by the negative press reaction, and also the fact that the SP extorted Palmer's promise to keep is mouth shut publicly in exchange for not being ex'ed.[/quote]

And, I guess, you are relying upon Palmer for that. Such evidence.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

I have the greatest respect for Dr. Quinn.

BS.

Such presumption.

Not at all. You're the one who repeatedly gossips about Quinn's "holding hands with one of his mates" at an MHA conference in 1980 or 81.

Who is saying it was a "kangaroo court?" Quinn? You're relying solely upon one-sided evidence? Tsk tsk.

Quinn's information about his court (including the reference by the SP at the court to BKP's direction) came from someone attending the court.

In his Sunstone presentation he explicitly conceded that he did not accept the policies and doctrines of the Church in the two sentences following his statement that he would have rather that he hadn't been excommunicated. He has conceded the point. Fully.

According to the letter Quinn received after his excommunication, he was not ex'ed for apostasy, but for insubordination to his SP.

And it wasn't a foregone conclusion; Grant Palmer appeared for his trial and was not excommunicated.

Palmer was saved by the negative press reaction, and also the fact that the SP extorted Palmer's promise to keep is mouth shut publicly in exchange for not being ex'ed.

And, I guess, you are relying upon Palmer for that. Such evidence.

Unlike Quinn, Palmer did attend his court. So why is that a problem?

[_Trevor]

It didn't seem to bother Dr. Quinn at the time. He didn't even appear for his trial.

I have the greatest respect for Dr. Quinn. I cite his works. He doesn't publish anonymous hit pieces against the Church. He has a decent measure of integrity. But, had he had a defense to his excommunication he would have appeared to make it. He isn't a timid rabbit. And it wasn't a foregone conclusion; Grant Palmer appeared for his trial and was not excommunicated.

This is not a response to what I wrote. You have not challenged my position. I don't see how what you have added here changes the fact that it was Quinn's excommunication that most compromised his viability in academic positions funded by LDS people or where the feelings of LDS people were taken into account.

[_Mister Scratch]

It didn't seem to bother Dr. Quinn at the time. He didn't even appear for his trial.

I have the greatest respect for Dr. Quinn. I cite his works. He doesn't publish anonymous hit pieces against the Church. He has a decent measure of integrity. But, had he had a defense to his excommunication he would have appeared to make it. He isn't a timid rabbit. And it wasn't a foregone conclusion; Grant Palmer appeared for his trial and was not excommunicated.

This is not a response to what I wrote. You have not challenged my position. I don't see how what you have added here changes the fact that it was Quinn's excommunication that most compromised his viability in academic positions funded by LDS people or where the feelings of LDS people were taken into account.

Bob frequently shifts the goal posts. No big surprise there.