Temple Shock

[_Gazelam]

Good enough points, Gaz. I pretty much agree with you and you're speaking chapel doctrine. However, the temple speaks in absolutes - your obedience light is either switched on to 100% or it receives it's power from Satan. That is the wording. What an unhealthy reality. We both know it doesn't make sense. English is not that difficult of a language. Should we expect the Mormon God to has a decent command of it? Evidently not.

It's like the former wording of the covenant women made to obey their husbands. My mom lived through a living hell for over 20 years married to an abusive man because he was a Mormon she married in the temple.

Inc.,

The Temple speaks in absolutes the same way anyone trying to get you to reach a goal speaks in absolutes. Ever had a personal trainer? wasn't it Ed McMahon who told us all those years to never give up and keep reaching for the stars?

The fact of the matter is this:

D&C 88
14 Now, verily I say unto you, that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead.
15 And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.
16 And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.
17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.
18 Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;
19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;
20 That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.
21 And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.
22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.
23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.
24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory

Or, as Bruce R McConkie stated:

The true doctrine is that all men will be resurrected, but they will come forth in the resurrection with different kinds of bodies-some celestial, others terrestrial, others telestial, and some with bodies incapable of standing any degree of glory. The body we receive in the resurrection determines the glory we receive in the kingdoms that are prepared.

We do not have to be perfect to inherit the Celestial kingdom, but we do need to conduct ourselves in a way that the Holy Ghost feels comfortable enough to dwell within us. As we listen to his promptings and follow his council we will find ourselves whittling away at our imperfections and becoming more Christlike in our judgements and views and actions.

Brother McConkie has also stated, in reference to our needing to be perfect in order to inherit the Celestial kingdom:

What we are doing as members of the Church is charting a course leading to eternal life. There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law -strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity. The prophet taught that there are many things to be done, even beyond the grave, in working out our salvation.

And so what we do in this life is chart a course leading to eternal life. That course begins here and now and continues in the realms ahead. We must determine in our hearts and in our souls, with all the power and ability we have, that from this time forward we will press on in righteousness; by so doing we can go where God and Christ are. If we make that firm determination, and are in the course of our duty when this life is over, we will continue in that course in eternity. That same spirit that possesses our bodies at the time we depart from this mortal life will have power to possess our bodies in the eternal world. If we go out of this life loving the Lord, desiring righteousness, and seeking to acquire the attributes of godliness, we will have that same spirit in the eternal world, and we will then continue to advance and progress until an ultimate, destined day when we will possess, receive, and inherit all things.

In reference to your parents relationship: A Celestial marriage is only in effect if the Holy Ghost enters into that relationship and binds it in accordance with the sealing of the Holy Spirit of promise (D&C 132:18). If your father abused his authority and his wife, then your mother will join with another in the world to come who is more worthy of her company.

[_Inconceivable]

Gaz,

That was a lot of information I've been privy to for many years.

Sometimes when we don't feel so great about absolutes, we dig a little deep and pull out obscure comments that nearly make sense - until we go back to places like the temple and renew our covenants based upon absolutes.

Bottom line, I swore to the Mormon God, angels and witness that I would never reveal the tokens of the priesthood otherwise I would suffer my life to be taken in the most God-awful, violent, horrific and humiliating way.

I gestured my bloody slaughter every time I went through a session - every latter day saint did. Every single time.

I have never, nor has anyone else, ever been given release from these covenants/consequences. There was no memo. It is yet in effect.

The only other religeous ideology that demonstrates this grotesque graphic are the same that have told their most faithful that learning to fly does not require the knowledge of how to land a plane safely.

Inc.

[_Danna]

With people talking about wedding experiances, I have just realised what was odd about mine.

I am an nontheist exmo, married to a Catholic. I had a lovely military wedding in a non-denom military chapel, by a Catholic Army Chaplain. (They have a mixed-wedding service without mass, but otherwise routine, I understand).

My TBM mother, who usually inserts herself into everything and insists on 'helping' or directing (you know mothers), didn't. She didn't help with any of the preparations, not with the bridal party, or helping her grand-daughter, my niece, with her hair or dress. I had assumed she would help to sew up the page-boy's uniform (mini-military) but his mum (my sister) did so alone in the end. Mother turned up, sat in the bride's relatives' pews, attended what was necessary and left early. And that was that. I wear make-up about once a year if absolutely necessary, but there was no interest in my preparations - at all.

Then, after we signed the documents etc, I gave the certificate to Mum and she lost it. (Note, never assume the non-drinkers are the best custodians of important stuff!)

This is mystifying, as we were all in the officers' mess, we spoke to the mess staff straight away - a small group of sensible ladies we were paying especially for the occasion. The certificate never turned up. My mum claims she passed it on to my MIL (the personification of sensibility, quite frankly, even after a few glasses of wine) for some reason. MIL doesn't know what she is talking about.

She didn't quite be the grinch, but I was made to know she was being very 'tolerant'.

Anyway. Discussion of weddings bought this to mind. I wonder what really happened to our wedding certificate. The priest had to make some sort of declaration about the marriage in the end, so that we could get it registered.

[_harmony]

Shame makes people do the strangest things.