Inhibition.

[_Ray A]

How many ex-Mormons here feel like they have "left over inhibition"? From the Mormon experience. I'm not suggesting that all inhibitions be dropped, or even that this is a bad thing. And it's not unique to ex-Mormons, either (so all commentary is open). I think inhibition arises from many different factors, not the least being cultural and religious experience in other spheres. Expressing your true feelings in cyber-space can be daunting, and many of us may wonder in retrospect - why did I post that? Why am I telling people I don't even know, my most intimate thoughts?

Isn't it kind of funny that we'll trust "strangers" with thoughts many of us would never even reveal to our friends and relatives? Anonymity of course helps, but even the non-anonymous reveal things in cyber-space that they would not openly tell their family.

I suppose in some sense most of us are looking for "validation". And we'll seek it anywhere, the most logical place being among others who are doing the same thing.

Do you think that by being so open and trusting and believing that people will "understand us", is naïve?

Is the bottom line of "Internet participation" an exercise to feel good about ourselves by interacting with others of like mind? And how does that explain the phenomenon of Mormon Discussions - where we are most likely to be clobbered for any view we hold? LOL.

And to conclude, I'll offer my naïve opinion: My belief in human nature is quite strong. I believe that most people are sincere and looking for love, approval, and even validation, but they do it in different ways, but also attempt to sway others to their way of thinking, for further validation.

What are your thoughts?

Can we call ourselves a "collective mind" in cognitive dissonance? We would all like to form a world after the "image of our own god", as Hoffer noted, but that seldom meets the reality of what we actually encounter.

[_Jersey Girl]

Ray,

I'm going to respond to selected portions of your post.

Isn't it kind of funny that we'll trust "strangers" with thoughts many of us would never even reveal to our friends and relatives? Anonymity of course helps, but even the non-anonymous reveal things in cyber-space that they would not openly tell their family.

That's not entirely true. There's nothing that I've expressed on these boards that my family is unware of. No perspective or even expressive language ;-) would be unknown to them.

Is the bottom line of "Internet participation" an exercise to feel good about ourselves by interacting with others of like mind?

Just the opposite is true for me. I want to encounter folks who aren't like minded. I like opposition of thought and perspective. I like intellectual conflict.

Okay. I like to argue.

:-)

[_Ray A]

Okay. I like to argue.

:-)

Where do we meet for coffee and a good argument? LOL.

[_Jersey Girl]

Okay. I like to argue.

:-)

Where do we meet for coffee and a good argument? LOL.

When will you be in the States?

[_Ray A]

When will you be in the States?

Some time in the next 10 years, hopefully. I will specifically plan a visit to New Jersey.

When are you coming to Oz? We could have a serious argument about continental drift, and why Oz ended up "Down Under", or even whether Santa Claus lives at the North Pole, instead of the South Pole. I'll have to straighten you out about some cultural prejudices. Once you taste pavlova with whipped cream and kiwi fruit, you'll be in a very "agreeable" mood.

[_Sam Harris]

I think I left over inhibition. I was never one who believed in the literal truth of the Book of Mormon, or even the Bible. Most of my friends didn't. But I felt that I carved a way a part of myself each time I went to church or was around other LDS. My exodus was really cultural. Coming from such a diverse religious background, it never occurred to me (and still does not) to make an issue over Joseph Smith claims. I just adjusted my testimony and worldview to my comfort level. When I finally said "I know this church is true", I did it based on its fruits (many good, kind, Christian people and the service they render to others). I wasn't saying it in the traditional sense that many others said it, and I made that clear when I said it that one time. And I was respected for it.

But there were little things, things that I felt God didn't really care about, that I saw many of the people in my wards making issue over. They were too perfectionistic for me. I got tired of being ashamed of the music I listened to, being ashamed of my culture (though sometimes that shame is legitimate), being ashamed of who I came to be through my experiences.

I went through this phase of trying to imitate the Mormon girls around me in every aspect, yes, in the hope of being accepted and validated. Because I didn't have that in my life at that time, and I hadn't learned to accept and validate myself. That came later, when I started questioning. I changed myself so much that my friends and family didn't recognize me...and one day I looked in the mirror and didn't recognize myself.

I once blogged about the experience of buying underwear again after being in garments. I did feel kind of uninhibited at that time, I felt like I was cutting lose a lot of the expectations I had piled upon myself in the quest to be the perfect Mormon girl. I had wanted nothing more than to be that and have the storybook temple marriage, the nice home life, and the wonderful kids. But I knew that when certain people looked at me, they saw things that sparked their suspicion...the same things that sparked my insecurity.

Ultimately I left the church out of the simple desire to be myself. And I was not the only one of the Black LDS females in my ward to do the same. Still, I have other Black LDS friends who made different choices, and who went through the same thing that I did...I respect their choice, because they're happy. As they respect mine.

As far as the other questions you posted:

Why am I telling people I don't even know, my most intimate thoughts?

I don't think it's as daunting for many people to express themselves openly online as you may think, Ray. Look around here. In fact, I've said before that "it's always louder on the internet". If you keep yourself completely anonymous, you can say and do what you want and not really pay the price for your actions.

When I first started healing from my depression, the anonymity really helped me. I think that the faceless aspect of the internet is like sitting in front of a therapist for many, you get to be who you are in that moment without people judging you or trying to fix you. Hell, people have said they use this board as therapy, though I really don't recommend that, as we aren't qualified to help folks through the more trying emotional aspects of leaving the church. All many here can offer is empathy, but that's only one of the things necessary for healing. Responsibility for one's actions among other things is also required, and I wonder if some people here actually have that, ya know?

Isn't it kind of funny that we'll trust "strangers" with thoughts many of us would never even reveal to our friends and relatives? Anonymity of course helps, but even the non-anonymous reveal things in cyber-space that they would not openly tell their family.

To me it's not. Often our loved ones only see the picture they paint of us from their interactions with us. Their expectations of us are based upon their own experiences, prejudices, fears...and sometimes we as human beings suppress the true nature of those around us because we are afraid of that nature, be it good or bad. I know that I often feel like I have to hide a certain aspect of myself from my family, because they don't see who I truly am. I'm the "smart white girl" in a family of ignorant black people. They blame me for the choices they've made in their lives, and the fact that I didn't make them myself. I'm expected to "dumb down" because they won't crack open a magazine, let alone a book. I'm the only one in my family who sought therapy to work out my emotional issues from my past...I'm now considered to be "mentally unstable", because I chose to address my problems instead of going on drugs or having kids when I was a kid. I'm the only one in my family pursuing college. I'm disliked because of that. So I'm not fully myself around them. And I know many others experience this in other aspects as well. Many strangers have been kinder to me than my own kin, believe me. Most of my "family" aren't even blood related to me. Other people's parents have parented me more than my own.

I suppose in some sense most of us are looking for "validation". And we'll seek it anywhere, the most logical place being among others who are doing the same thing.

Oh yes, so true. I think one of the reasons why I joined the church is because I needed validation. I was warned early on by friends that what I was seeing wasn't real (the Brady Bunch personas), but I didn't listen. They were simply kind to me, and Sunday (or any other day of a church gathering) was the only day I saw kindness back then. But when I got too comfortable and started being myself, the atmosphere changed, and I was back to square one.

Do you think that by being so open and trusting and believing that people will "understand us", is naïve?

Now I do. I was telling my therapist the other day, that in light of all that I'm going through, I cannot get angry or shed a tear without those who know I'm seeing her suggesting I set up an appointment. I'm struggling, and I can't even cry about it without someone mentioning that I'm in therapy. I had a run-in with a cousin the other day because I feel she's too dangerous to be around, and she called me mentally unstable...a person who has three different kids with three different daddies, one dead, one jailed, and one drugged....and she started at 16. I'm mentally unstable for making different choices and staying away from her. "Crazy" is the most common name I'm called when my family is angry at me, and some days I wish I had never told anyone that I was seeking help from my depression, the same thing that plagues many of them. It's like Chris Nelson's wife in What Dreams May Come. When she died, she didn't realize she was in a hell of her own making. How sad is that?

Is the bottom line of "Internet participation" an exercise to feel good about ourselves by interacting with others of like mind?

I think so, and especially here and places like RFM, where there's a lot of back-slapping when it comes to defaming the idea of God and Mormonism in particular. Most people do here what they can't do in the real world, because they're at least adult enough to know that society won't accept that...well, except for Porter.

And how does that explain the phenomenon of Mormon Discussions - where we are most likely to be clobbered for any view we hold? LOL.

Please, you're only really clobbered here for believing in God. It's considered dangerous to your brain cells. Oh, and those who see you this way consider you dangerous to the world at large, more likely to abuse your children, and probably suffering from some sort of chemical addiction that's causing your lack of enlightenment...but some of them go on and on about mind-altering drugs they wish were legal here.

Who's trying to escape?

My thoughts.

[_harmony]

I come here to relieve pain. It's as simple as that. Some days it works; some days, it doesn't. Some days I want to kick it all to the curb and put on some lacy red panties. Most days though, I'm more cautious, knowing what I risk.

The laughter this place generates for me (thank you, Moksha and others) helps to alleviate the pain for a while. The serious ideas that are kicked around here, even when I don't enter the discussion or can't fully grasp the concept because I'm not well-versed in the subject, still impact my pain. Sometimes, just having something else to think about is enough to bring me back here for my daily dose of pain relief.

I don't allow many people to see what people here see. Some of my family don't know, although some of them do. There is no way out for me, so I endure and find joy where I can. This is one of those places.

I miss the people who are MIA. I miss Daniel, and Runtu, and Elish, and Primary Chorister, and JJ, and Guy Sager, and Froggie, and Addict... and all the others who once graced us. Even Will.

[_Ray A]

Thanks for your contributions Sam and harmony, and nice to see you again posting your always thought provoking and refreshingly honest ideas, Sam.