D. Michael Quinn on Homophobia.

[_Ray A]

Prelude to the National “Defense of Marriage” Campaign: Civil Discrimination Against Feared or Despised Minorities

Does Quinn have "an agenda"? Maybe. Do apologists have "an agenda"? Of course not (insert sarcastic smiley here).

But maybe we need to weigh both sides of the debate. Can a homosexual person still be a true believer? Can a homosexual person still believe in God? Can a homosexual person still believe that he/she is guided by Divine Providence?

Frankly, I don't care if Quinn has "an agenda", but he certainly has a point!
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[_JustMe]

I have never said anything less. FARMS have points also. The LDS scholars have points also. They are denigrated for doing so however. Witness, um, who shall I pick as most representative.......Scartch himself!

[_GoodK]

FARMS has points too?

Like what? Ignore certain books? Ignore certain people?
Give us a thousand bucks for a liahona membership?

Great article - thanks Ray.

[_Jason Bourne]

I would like to read this. Since it is lengthy I will print it off then read it.

[_harmony]

I have never said anything less. FARMS have points also. The LDS scholars have points also. They are denigrated for doing so however. Witness, um, who shall I pick as most representative.......Scartch himself!

Perhaps what you say is true, and perhaps the nonLDS fired the first shot across the bow, but does that mean FARMS/MI has to continue to battle? There is something to be said for civil disagreement. Something very important: people are much more likely to understand, if the tone of the disgreement is civil. Meanness and denigration and lies and prevarication and everything that is less than absolute honesty and kindness has no place in anything related to the LDS church... and that means FARMS, and MI, and FAIR, and MADB.

Do I need to quote the scriptures? We are not commanded to be honest only with those who are members of our church. We are not commanded to be kind to those who believe like we do. We are commanded to honest with everyone and kind to everyone.

Listen to our leaders! What did they say, just a month ago, about internet discourse? Do I need to quote it?

Good grief, JustMe.

The fear that drives the LDS church today may abate as our leaders die off. We can only hope that is the case, that this generation of leaders who have led us so far astray will give way to leaders who listen more closely to the spirit, who know more fully the mind of God, who care more about their brothers and sisters... all of them. I'm not holding my breath though.

And the most trod-upon of all time is not the homosexual male. The most trod-upon of all time is the non-male half of the human race. And even God's Son himself could not convince men to change that.

[_Ray A]

Great article - thanks Ray.

I highly recommend this article for all. It is long, but well worth reading. And for the skeptics, this is Quinn at his best, in my opinion. It's the sort of stuff on a par with his 1985 essay on post-Manifesto polygamy.

[_bcspace]

But maybe we need to weigh both sides of the debate. Can a homosexual person still be a true believer? Can a homosexual person still believe in God? Can a homosexual person still believe that he/she is guided by Divine Providence?

Insert adulterer or fornicator for "homosexual person". The answers would be the same.

[_collegeterrace]

But maybe we need to weigh both sides of the debate. Can a homosexual person still be a true believer? Can a homosexual person still believe in God? Can a homosexual person still believe that he/she is guided by Divine Providence?

Insert adulterer or fornicator for "homosexual person". The answers would be the same.

Let's try.

Definition of adulterer? A person who has sexual relations outside of their legally recognized marriage.

Hmmmm, who do we all know that fits this definition?

But maybe we need to weigh both sides of the debate. Can the adulterer Joseph Smith still be a true believer? Can Joseph Smith cheat on his wife and still believe in God? Can Joseph Smith have illicit sex with teen aged girls and still believe that he is guided by Divine Providence?

Hey! I see your point!

[_Ray A]

Insert adulterer or fornicator for "homosexual person". The answers would be the same.

I realise that the terms "adulterer" and "fornicator" are exempt to Mormon leaders. Whatever they do is legal in the eyes of God.