Paradigms for Apologists

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_Mister Scratch
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Re: Paradigms for Apologists

Post by _Mister Scratch »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:

That doesn't answer the question at all. Not by a long shot. Here it is again: Do you engage in messageboard polemics to improve your life as a Latter-day, or your "skills" as a Mopologist?


No. I engage in message board discussions as part of my overall interest in religion. I have found a lot of good references, met good friends, been advised to read great books (Gad, for example, got me to finally finish Kuhn, for example) better understood my point, argued against people I felt were wrong, helped people find information they wouldn't have found otherwise, seen other viewpoints, argued for and against other viewpoints, etc. and etc.



LoaP, you are dodging the question yet again. You specifically mentioned *improvement*. Remember? And this took place within the context of your motivations for acting as an amateur Mopologist. Right? You went on to explain that your Mopologetics occur in a manner similar to a swimmer or a rugby player, i.e., that you are "practicing," and hoping to "improve" in some way. Do you understand? My question is thus: What is it that you feel you are improving? Your above post makes it seem as if you are trying to shift the goal posts yet again, positing yourself as some kind of pure, idealistic, and very earnest student, who engages in Mopologetics only for self-improvement and intellectual enlightenment.

But, obviously, that is complete nonsense. The kind of aggressive argumentative tactics employed by you and Maklelan on the discount thread, for example, or by DCP, Hamblin, Midgley and others in FARMS Review are about as far away from positive learning and education as one can get. Thus it makes zero sense for you to claim that the bulk of your posts here, on MAD, or elsewhere are related to some kind of self-improvement and education. (Self-empowerment, maybe, but not self-improvement, unless attacking others and becoming a better sadist somehow encapsulates that for you.)

In the context of Mopologetics, a guy like you is not interested in reading Kuhn merely for the sake of reading Kuhn. Sure, you will learn something in the process, but that is merely a supplement to your primary goal, which is to hoard knowledge so that you can use it to attack enemies of "your" Church. You value something like Kuhn not because it is enlightening; you value it because you feel that you can use it to help reaffirm your testimony. You admitted to all of this to Gad in the other thread, in fact.
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
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Re: Paradigms for Apologists

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Scratch, I bid you farewell. If you would ever like to meet send me an email. I'm interested in that sort of exchange. No more of this back-and-forth online with an anonymous Scratch for me, thanks. So email me when you're in town. My treat, of course.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: Paradigms for Apologists

Post by _Mister Scratch »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:Scratch, I bid you farewell. If you would ever like to meet send me an email. I'm interested in that sort of exchange. No more of this back-and-forth online with an anonymous Scratch for me, thanks. So email me when you're in town. My treat, of course.


No way, LoaP. You gleefully support the atrocious, negative, sadistic campaign called Mopologetics, and until you fully renounce it, I have no interest in meeting you personally.
_Pokatator
_Emeritus
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:38 pm

Re: Paradigms for Apologists

Post by _Pokatator »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:Scratch, I bid you farewell. If you would ever like to meet send me an email. I'm interested in that sort of exchange. No more of this back-and-forth online with an anonymous Scratch for me, thanks. So email me when you're in town. My treat, of course.


Seems Dr. Peterson has taught you well or is this just part of basic training for the L-skinny?
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably.
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_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
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Re: Paradigms for Apologists

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Pokatator wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:Scratch, I bid you farewell. If you would ever like to meet send me an email. I'm interested in that sort of exchange. No more of this back-and-forth online with an anonymous Scratch for me, thanks. So email me when you're in town. My treat, of course.


Seems Dr. Peterson has taught you well or is this just part of basic training for the L-skinny?


It's a personal decision, really. I don't think I am mean, or nasty, or whatever else Mister Scratch wants to call me, all of these labels, etc. He's certainly welcome to that opinion; it really reflects very little on the reality of things. He's less interested in his own church than he is in berating fellow members of the Church. If that's what he thinks the gospel is about then he understands things differently than I do. It appears that the main difference is that when I act like a jerk I recognize it. So it is better to leave such folks alone. Especially when they are nothing more than anonymous strangers who refuse a personal meeting to help things come to terms.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: Paradigms for Apologists

Post by _Mister Scratch »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
Pokatator wrote:Seems Dr. Peterson has taught you well or is this just part of basic training for the L-skinny?


It's a personal decision, really. I don't think I am mean, or nasty, or whatever else Mister Scratch wants to call me, all of these labels, etc. He's certainly welcome to that opinion; it really reflects very little on the reality of things.


It reflects on "reality" every bit as much as your mean-spirited caricatures of myself and other Church critics.

He's less interested in his own church than he is in berating fellow members of the Church.


Nonsense. I seldom ever discuss actual spirituality or LDS doctrine here, because what would be the point? You and other apologists seldom bother defending (or discussing) such things. Instead, as you yourself pointed out in this thread, you are more interested in sharpening your own polemical knives, so that you can continue "bashing," and attacking critics.

If that's what he thinks the gospel is about then he understands things differently than I do. It appears that the main difference is that when I act like a jerk I recognize it.


Feel free to cite a post of yours when you've done this. Your presumptuousness is showing yet again.

So it is better to leave such folks alone. Especially when they are nothing more than anonymous strangers who refuse a personal meeting to help things come to terms.


What do you think would "come to terms," LoaP? We'd meet, eat lunch, and the only thing you would take away from it (by your own admission!) would be more ammunition to "improve" your abilities as a Mopologist. Since I think Mopologetics is evil, why would I supply you with such an opportunity?

If you are sincere about your offer, then I think you are going to need to make some serious admissions and confessions concerning Mopologetics, and certain individual Mopologists. Until then, you will be seen by me as an opportunistic sadist and recovering ex-missionary, still craving those adrenaline-rush "bashing" sessions---personality traits which, as you and I both know, have nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

But, if you want to wave the white flag and depart from the board, then that's fine, too. Chalk up another defeat for the Mopologists.
_antishock8
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Re: Paradigms for Apologists

Post by _antishock8 »

There are apologists like Kevin christensen who try and formulate careful arguments based on Kuhn, that's for another time.


I think the true "paradigm shifting" we've seen in apologetics is to rip off other people's ideas and pass them off as your own. As we've now seen with Dartagnan, he's been parroting Vox Day's (Theodore Beal) arguments on abortion, god, and society. We see this in Mopologetic circles by junior Mopologists who essentially parrot senior Mopologists, but slyly post in a manner which suggests the juniors came up with their argument all by themselves. This is hardly the case.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
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