The way we look from the outside

[_harmony]

Okay, time for another story from harmony's real life.

My daughter loves softball. She's played it since she was 8 years old. She coaches it at school and has a team in the summer league for under 16 year old girls. Our stake has a team in the women's church league. My daughter has asked to play on that team for the last three years, to no avail. They don't want her on their team. So... a friend of hers from work invited her to play on HER team, which happens to play in the same women's church league, and is sponsored by a Lutheran church.

To make a long story short, the Lutheran team beat the LDS team... and some of the LDS team members refused to shake my daughter's hand after the game. They knew her or at least knew what ward she attends, and they just skipped right over her. My daughter was livid (my daughter is still livid!). And when she went back to the dugout to get her gear, the women on the Lutheran team told her to not sweat it... the LDS team was always like that! So much so that 2 years ago, the league told them to clean up their sportsmanship or they wouldn't be allowed to play in the league.

What is up with this? Where does this come from? Have none of these people ever heard "every member a missionary"? Are they so entranced with themselves that they think they can behave badly and not hurt the church itself? Not hurt the way the church is perceived by the members of this community?

I'm not sure what the solution is. For starters, I asked my daughter who she was going to play with, and she immediately chose the Lutherans. I suggested she speak with the ward bishop about it, but she says the women all come from different wards and the singles branch. So all I could think of was to go to the stake website, see who was in charge of the sports program, and make an appointment to see him.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

[_Uncle Dale]

...
Anyone have any other suggestions?

"Always wash your hands, after touching money handed to you by a Gentile."
(old Mormon folk-advice, from Malad City, Idaho, c. 1860)

UD

[_Dr. Shades]

I'm not sure what the solution is. For starters, I asked my daughter who she was going to play with, and she immediately chose the Lutherans. I suggested she speak with the ward bishop about it, but she says the women all come from different wards and the singles branch. So all I could think of was to go to the stake website, see who was in charge of the sports program, and make an appointment to see him.

See him about what? Getting him to allow your daughter to play on the LDS team, or getting permission from him for your daughter to keep playing on the Lutheran team?

If the former, then I don't see the point of playing with such people anyway. If the latter, I don't think it's necessary to book an appointment at all, since your daughter is an adult and can make her own decisions outside of the LDS hierarchy.

[_harmony]

See him about what? Getting him to allow your daughter to play on the LDS team, or getting permission from him for your daughter to keep playing on the Lutheran team?

If the former, then I don't see the point of playing with such people anyway. If the latter, I don't think it's necessary to book an appointment at all, since your daughter is an adult and can make her own decisions outside of the LDS hierarchy.

Could you have understood more poorly? I don't think so.

See him to see if he has any suggestions for ways to improve the sportsmanship of the stake overall, or ways to change the sign up procedure to reflect a no-tolerance policy for exhibitions of bad sportsmanship. At one point in time, we had no men's sports due to the poor sportsmanship of the teams overall, and we were just playing each other then... not the rest of the community!

She wouldn't play for an LDS team now... and likely never will. More and more she prefers to gain her social life away from the church, because of the attitude she comes up against. NonLDS sportsmanship reflects the way she lives her life; LDS bad sportsmanship is too far away from that.

[_John Larsen]

I'm not sure what the solution is. For starters, I asked my daughter who she was going to play with, and she immediately chose the Lutherans. I suggested she speak with the ward bishop about it, but she says the women all come from different wards and the singles branch. So all I could think of was to go to the stake website, see who was in charge of the sports program, and make an appointment to see him.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

Twice in my life I have come close to being physically assaulted, they were both times when I was refereeing LDS basketballs games. The first time it was when I was 14 by a full grown man. Anyway, my point is that there is probably nothing you can do because poor sportmanship somehow became ingrained in LDS sports and you are not going to be able to change that. It is well known and most LDS treat it with a wink and a laugh--it is the big inside joke. Kind of like the one indulgence.

But the second part of the problem comes from the nature of the LDS team. I have lived in both the LDS world and in non-LDS congregations and the chief difference is the perception of duty and obligation in service. All of the same sorts of jobs exist in congregations of any faith that exist in an LDS ward--teachers, clean up, music, finance, etc. However, in other paradigms the people all volunteer. There is a surely a sense of duty but there is also the individual willingness to serve. In the LDS paradigm that is turned on its head. You can be called to serve in any position regardless of your desire or qualification and your are expected to take what you are given and do your duty.

I think this leads to a sort of expected service that is not present as much outside of the Church. When you go to the Lutheran church and see the fully staffed Sunday school, you have to think, "Wow! all of those people volunteered to do that!" At the LDS ward, there is a sense of "doing your time" in the primary while waiting for a better calling to come along. I think this also bleeds over into an expectation that everyone has to do their fair share.

So, I think that there might be a subtle perception that your daughter is shirking her duty. She is obligated to serve on the LDS team. And since the team is composed of different people from different wards, that is probably compounded because it is less a team motivated by a bunch of friends who like to spend time together and more an effort on behalf of the cause.

[_Dwight Frye]

I would register a complaint with league administration. Get them to issue another warning to the LDS team.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Don't worry over it. Let the LDS team keep right on making asses of themselves.

Your daughter plays for the Lutherans, anyway, which is best. That means when she turns twenty-one she can pop open an ice cold Sam Adams after a long, hot softball game. Mmmm!

KA

[_harmony]

Don't worry over it. Let the LDS team keep right on making asses of themselves.

They certainly are doing their part to make the church look bad here in our area.

Your daughter plays for the Lutherans, anyway, which is best. That means when she turns twenty-one she can pop open an ice cold Sam Adams after a long, hot softball game. Mmmm!

KA

She turned 21 10 years ago. Very few of the people she calls friends are LDS, which is why she sees things so differently, I suspect. It's all those after 9 pm runs to Applebees for half price appetizers and drinks in the bar!

[_moksha]

Harmony, have any of those softball team members been hanging out at MAD? If so, stopping that may be a potential solution.