Banned From NOM

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_Gazelam
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Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _Gazelam »

I'm going to post the response I wanted to give if the conversation I was having on NOM was allowed to continue. If someone could link this to the NOM site I'd appreciate it -

Proposition 8 was declared “unconstitutional” according to the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Ratified on July 9, 1868, the 14th Amendment which was originally passed to protect the citizenship rights of freed slaves. The part in question stems from Section 1, which says:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”


The Plaintiffs in the Perry v. Schwarzenegger case “allege that Proposition 8 deprives them of due process and of equal protection of the laws contrary to the Fourteenth Amendment”.

The Plaintiffs have made (deliberately) a glaring legal error.The opponents of Proposition 8 argue that homosexuals are a suspect class. But as every student of law and political science knows, homosexuals are not a suspect class. They are not even a quasisuspect class. Homosexuals are a nonsuspect class. This means that the court should only have to apply a minimum rationality standard of review.

The Plaintiffs have demanded a strict scrutiny standard of review, which is only supposed to legally apply to those who are discriminated against because of their inherent physical race, not because of their behavior. In order to get away with this, they have gravitated towards an easily manipulated parenthetical within the definition of suspect class: “when laws treat people differently due to race (or legislation that infringes on some fundamental rights)” (pg. 142, Keeping the Republic, 3rd Brief Edition by Christine Barbour and Gerald C. Wright).

Thus, the Plaintiffs argue that marriage is a fundamental right.

American Dictionary of the English Language by Noah Webster, 1828 (an edition that could have been used by ratifiers of the Fourteenth Amendment, by the way). -
MARRIAGE - The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. Marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. Marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity, and for securing the maintenance and education of children.


Webster’s New World Dictionary, Third College Edition -
MARRIAGE - the state of being married; relation between husband and wife; married life; wedlock; matrimony


Marriage is a covenantal union between a man and a woman - husband and wife - that has been recognized for millenia (there are also age and blood relative limitation standards to be met before acquiring a marriage license, so it isn’t necessarily an inalienable right). A homosexual couple cannot demand and acquire marriage anymore than a woman can demand and acquire a vasectomy. It has nothing to do with inequality of personhood or unequal treatment by the law. Rather, it simply cannot happen - unless, of course, some definitions are drastically changed.

The strategy employed by the Plaintiffs is very predictable. When one is losing a debate, the best chance of winning is to redefine the debate. They are not legally deprived of marriage - they don’t want what marriage really is. In order to make their lifestyle seem more normal and comprehensible to the public, they desire to call it “marriage”.

Imagine for a moment that a group of fifteen children are playing a game and two children enter the room demanding the game rules be changed to accommodate them because they have a different standard and insist they can’t do anything to change themselves. If the fifteen players refuse because they view the two others to be wrong, and those two then repeatedly harass them about it, who are the real bigots – those in the majority, or those in the minority?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Willy Law
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Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _Willy Law »

Gazelam wrote:s. If the fifteen players refuse because they view the two others to be wrong, and those two then repeatedly harass them about it, who are the real bigots – those in the majority, or those in the minority?


So...the gays are the bigots?
It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent.
Bruce R. McConkie
_Ray A

Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _Ray A »

Gazelam would have no problem turning away one of his own children if they turned out Gay. In fact, he said he wouldn't have a problem drowning them, If I recall correctly.

So Gaz got banned from a board? My heart bleeds for him.
_why me
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Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _why me »

Ray A wrote:Gazelam would have no problem turning away one of his own children if they turned out Gay. In fact, he said he wouldn't have a problem drowning them, If I recall correctly.

So Gazelam got banned from a board? My heart bleeds for him.


I think that the point is: should he have been banned? And the answer is: probably not. However, on boards that are critical of Mormonism and NOM is one of them, if a poster disagrees with the exmos, he or she is risking a ban, especially if they support the lds church on an issue. Democracy does not exist, except on this board.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Ray A

Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _Ray A »

why me wrote:I think that the point is:


I think the point is that while Gaz will never lose posting privileges here, and has very possibly contributed significant financial resources to MDB, or so I’m led to believe, he represents the most bigoted in Mormonism, and someone needs to point this out. The exmos wiping his ass and giving him star status on Mormon Expression, and the like, seem to ignore his Nazi views which call for the eradication of homosexuals.
_schreech
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Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _schreech »

Gazelam wrote:American Dictionary of the English Language by Noah Webster, 1828 (an edition that could have been used by ratifiers of the Fourteenth Amendment, by the way). -
MARRIAGE - The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. Marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. Marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity, and for securing the maintenance and education of children.


Webster’s New World Dictionary, Third College Edition -
MARRIAGE - the state of being married; relation between husband and wife; married life; wedlock; matrimony


Marriage is a covenantal union between a man and a woman - husband and wife - that has been recognized for millenia (there are also age and blood relative limitation standards to be met before acquiring a marriage license, so it isn’t necessarily an inalienable right). A homosexual couple cannot demand and acquire marriage anymore than a woman can demand and acquire a vasectomy. It has nothing to do with inequality of personhood or unequal treatment by the law. Rather, it simply cannot happen - unless, of course, some definitions are drastically changed.


You do realize that definitions in the dictionary are edited, amended and even changed every year right? Do you defend outdated definitions of all words? Do you still call cigarettes "fags"? do you reject calling the the "world wide web" the "net"? You do realize that there is such thing as a "female vasectomy" (http://jezebel.com/5216497/uk-performs- ... -vasectomy) RIGHT? What do you consider "the pill" since that word has definitely taken on a new meaning in the last several decades....and, finally, why do care how other people choose to define the word "marriage"...does it make your marriage less meaningful if someone else chooses to define the word "marriage" differently than you? I hate to break it to you, but "some definitions" drastically change over time...do you actively protect the definitions of all words?

If you don't, just admit that you don't like homosexuals and be done with it considering i can easily list dozens of words that have evolved legally over the years that i doubt you have attempted to "protect"...
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
"I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
_Pa Pa
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Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _Pa Pa »

Gazelam wrote:Apparently the women in charge of NOM can't handle a friendly and intelligent exchange of ideas. They claim I was debating on their forum, which I was not. I was asked questions there and responded to them.

As time goes on I become increasingly aware of what a rare and special place Shady Acres really is. I disagree with the positions of most people here, but at least it is a place where the positions and thoughts can be discussed.

What is "NOM"?
_Pa Pa
_Emeritus
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Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _Pa Pa »

Paul Osborne wrote:
Free speech--yeah, baby!!!!


We have a low tolerance for this kind of expression. Thread closed.

Image

Image

Paul O


Seems I can't leave there (lacK of willpower) and you are obsessed with not being allowed. Seems we both have a dilemma.
_Blixa
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Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _Blixa »

Dictionary definitions, what a joke. Read some history. Marriage has taken many, many, many forms and will continue to do so as human history progresses. There is no such thing as a universal "marriage covenant" that has never changed and needs protection from it. Ditto "family" and "gender," by the way. Even human biology is not as limited as the historically ignorant would have it.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered with/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Blixa
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Banned From NOM

Post by _Blixa »

Pa Pa wrote:
Gazelam wrote:Apparently the women in charge of NOM can't handle a friendly and intelligent exchange of ideas. They claim I was debating on their forum, which I was not. I was asked questions there and responded to them.

As time goes on I become increasingly aware of what a rare and special place Shady Acres really is. I disagree with the positions of most people here, but at least it is a place where the positions and thoughts can be discussed.

What is "NOM"?


People with an apparently lower tolerance for filth than the aptly-named MAD board.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered with/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
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