John Lund Update Request

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_Quasimodo
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _Quasimodo »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Inconceivable wrote:Dan, I noticed the tour Junkett site that promotes you two "guys" was down a day after Lund was busted. What is it that you would really like to talk about?

Is there something that you think I should talk about? Don't be coy. Make an accusation, if you have one.

As it is, I've simply challenged Joey's!!!!!! attempt to link John Lund with BYU.


No accusations, Dr. Peterson. But your thoughts on the matter would be interesting. You were an associate (in some ways) of John Lund. I was just wondering how you may feel about his situation.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Quasimodo wrote:No accusations, Dr. Peterson. But your thoughts on the matter would be interesting. You were an associate (in some ways) of John Lund. I was just wondering how you may feel about his situation.

I feel very bad about his situation. It's bad for him personally, and it probably doesn't help the Church in Israel very much (though I haven't heard of any actual harm or distress there, and though, accurately understood, he has no real link to the Church organization there or to the BYU Jerusalem Center).

I actually don't know him well. He called me once at home, several years ago, about a totally unrelated issue, and I once met him at a hotel in Jerusalem and spoke with him for about three minutes. Other than that, I don't believe I've ever spoken with him or met him. I'm not sure that I would recognize him on the street. He was never, as I understand it, on the faculty at BYU. He has never been connected with the Maxwell Institute.

He leads tours for CruiseLady (the company for which I've recently led some tours), but only in the Americas, not in the Middle East. In the Middle East, he goes with a different company (Fun4Less, I think?).

I have to say that things look really bad from the published reports. But I've just received, through a mutual friend, an account of Dr. Lund's side of the affair. It's rather long, and I haven't read it yet, but I'm somewhat interested to hear what he says.

Incidentally, on the matter of stolen antiquities: I'm not sure exactly what is meant by that term in the press reports, but I suspect that we're talking about things that haven't been stolen in the conventional sense of the word but that have, instead, been put on the market for sale without having first been properly registered with the Israel Antiquities Authority. This happens, unfortunately, all the time. Practically every shopkeeper and local guide has a brother who is an "archaeologist," and such things are constantly being offered to tourists. It's very unfortunate, and I refuse to have anything to do with it. I don't even own any such things. I won't even accept them as gifts when they're offered to me, which they regularly are.
_Quasimodo
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _Quasimodo »

Daniel Peterson wrote:I feel very bad about his situation. It's bad for him personally, and it probably doesn't help the Church in Israel very much (though I haven't heard of any actual harm or distress there, and though, accurately understood, he has no real link to the Church organization there or to the BYU Jerusalem Center).

I actually don't know him well. He called me once at home, several years ago, about a totally unrelated issue, and I once met him at a hotel in Jerusalem and spoke with him for about three minutes. Other than that, I don't believe I've ever spoken with him or met him. I'm not sure that I would recognize him on the street. He was never, as I understand it, on the faculty at BYU. He has never been connected with the Maxwell Institute.

He leads tours for CruiseLady (the company for which I've recently led some tours), but only in the Americas, not in the Middle East. In the Middle East, he goes with a different company (Fun4Less, I think?).

I have to say that things look really bad from the published reports. But I've just received, through a mutual friend, an account of Dr. Lund's side of the affair. It's rather long, and I haven't read it yet, but I'm somewhat interested to hear what he says.

Incidentally, on the matter of stolen antiquities: I'm not sure exactly what is meant by that term in the press reports, but I suspect that we're talking about things that haven't been stolen in the conventional sense of the word but that have, instead, been put on the market for sale without having first been properly registered with the Israel Antiquities Authority. This happens, unfortunately, all the time. Practically every shopkeeper and local guide has a brother who is an "archaeologist," and such things are constantly being offered to tourists. It's very unfortunate, and I refuse to have anything to do with it. I don't even own any such things. I won't even accept them as gifts when they're offered to me, which they regularly are.


Thanks so much for your honest response!

It is a bad situation for him. He did make international news (not in any way he would have liked).

I suspect, though, that things will be OK for him. He was allowed to leave Israel after posting a bond. I doubt his extradition in a matter like this would be very likely. I don't think he will be visiting Israel again, though.

As far as Dr. Lund's side of things, I don't think any explanation could absolve him from at least some guilt. The average tourist would not be expected to understand the historical losses from buying the odd artifact on the street. The most innocuous artifact, taken out of it's context, might preclude the accurate understanding of an ancient site and robbing us all of historical knowledge. Dr. Lund would have understood this and should have known better than to provide a market for those that loot sites.

You have my respect for avoiding the antiquities market. It shows your integrity.

Thanks again,

Quasi
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Joey
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _Joey »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Joey!!!!!! You said he's a "former BYU guy"!!!!!

He holds at least one degree from BYU, but I don't think that's what you meant!!!!!

Can you clarify and/or justify your claim that he's a "former BYU guy"??!!??!!



I think you confirmed what I had heard in that he was a BYU guy/grad.  I also thought I read he was involved w BYU's Education Week along w being a bishop and Stake President.

Had he only been detained, somewhere, with having ancient Book of Mormon artifacts - he would have been the initial second coming of Dee J. Nelson to the folks in Provo!

Has anyone ever been detained, anywhere, for smuggling ancient Book of Mormon artifacts?????
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Joey wrote:I think you confirmed what I had heard in that he was a BYU guy/grad.

Being a graduate of BYU is rather different than being a member of the faculty!!!!!!

Joey wrote:I also thought I read he was involved w BYU's Education Week along w being a bishop and Stake President.

He may have spoken at Education Week!!!!!! Lots of people do!!!!! They're not considered BYU faculty for merely doing that!!!!!

Whether he's been a bishop and/or a stake president, I have no idea!!!!!!

Joey wrote:Had he only been detained, somewhere, with having ancient Book of Mormon artifacts - he would have been the initial second coming of Dee J. Nelson to the folks in Provo!

Nobody that I know of at BYU ever thought much of Dee Jay Nelson!!!!! (And that includes Hugh Nibley!!!!)

Joey wrote:Has anyone ever been detained, anywhere, for smuggling ancient Book of Mormon artifacts?????

Yes!!!!!!!! Whether they recognized them as ancient Book of Mormon artifacts, however, is a different question!!!!!!
_Joey
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _Joey »

Peterson:

Where did I say he was BYU faculty?

Who, when and where was anybody detained w Book of Mormon artifacts? And how was this determined?

Nibley was quite impressed w DJ!!!!!
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_Infymus
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _Infymus »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Joey!!!!! Has John Lund ever actually been a member of the full time BYU faculty???!!!!?????

I don't think he has!!!!!!!! But I could be wrong!!!!!!


Daniel C. Peterson, you are hereby fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute for excessive ejaculation of exclamations.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Joey wrote:Where did I say he was BYU faculty?

I'm glad to see you expressly acknowledging that he was not!!!!!!

Joey wrote:Who, when and where was anybody detained w Book of Mormon artifacts? And how was this determined?

It happens quite frequently!!!!!

Joey wrote:Nibley was quite impressed w DJ!!!!!

I've read the materials on which you base that claim!!!!! And I knew Nibley well!!!!!

No, he wasn't!!!!!!!

People who knew Nibley well, who understand his style and personality, know how to read his comments!!!!! He was being polite!!!!!
_Joey
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _Joey »

Peterson wrote:I'm glad to see you expressly acknowledging that he was not!!!!!!


Still using Anthony Wiener's PR guys.  Just about as honest to boot!!! 

Peterson wrote:It happens quite frequently!!!!!
I'm sure, you are saying that with "certitude"!! All your "Wieners" aside, can you provide just one of these many "frequent" examples??  Hell, I'd even take one of those uncanny and timely Hamblin  emails from Watson for back up here!!!!!!!

Come on now - don't Wiener out here!!!!


Nibley had nothing but accolades for DJ!!!
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_daheshism
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Re: John Lund Update Request

Post by _daheshism »

I know John L. Lund. He is the most Christ-like Mormon I ever knew, bar none. I'm SURE bought the objects sincerely, not thinking he was doing anything illegal. Sure of it. He is abit gullible, but a very honest man.


Joey wrote:No, really though. Any update to this former BYU guy - John Lund, and his troubles in stolen artifacts?

http://chronicle.com/article/Retired-US ... Is/127575/
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