The possibility of losing genetic markers

[_zeezrom]

Is it possible that the level of technology used by the natives was appropriate given the means and resources available to them?

Stem,

You said that perhaps the enemies of Nephi's clan lost the cold war due to "integration with the natives". Could it be that integration with the natives might actually get you ahead of the immigrants?

Just wondering.

[_Brackite]

Were there others in the Promised land among the Nephites according to the Book of Mormon??
Let us go to 1st Nephi Chapter 18, Verse 25:

1 Nephi 18:

[25] And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper.

If there were others within the Promised Land when Lehi and his family first arrived in the Promised Land, why didn't Nephi mentioned about them in this Passage???

In the Book of Omni, when the Nephites were commanded by the Lord to leave the land of Nephi, there is mentioning of the Nephites discovering a People.
Let us now go to the Book of Omni, Verses 12 through 16:

Omni 1:

[12] Behold, I am Amaleki, the son of Abinadom. Behold, I will speak unto you somewhat concerning Mosiah, who was made king over the land of Zarahemla; for behold, he being warned of the Lord that he should flee out of the land of Nephi, and as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord should also depart out of the land with him, into the wilderness --

[13] And it came to pass that he did according as the Lord had commanded him. And they departed out of the land into the wilderness, as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord; and they were led by many preachings and prophesyings. And they were admonished continually by the word of God; and they were led by the power of his arm, through the wilderness, until they came down into the land which is called the land of Zarahemla.

[14] And they discovered a people, who were called the people of Zarahemla. Now, there was great rejoicing among the people of Zarahemla; and also Zarahemla did rejoice exceedingly, because the Lord had sent the people of Mosiah with the plates of brass which contained the record of the Jews.

[15] Behold, it came to pass that Mosiah discovered that the people of Zarahemla came out from Jerusalem at the time that Zedekiah, king of Judah, was carried away captive into Babylon.

[16] And they journeyed in the wilderness, and were brought by the hand of the Lord across the great waters, into the land where Mosiah discovered them; and they had dwelt there from that time forth.

The People here that the Nephites discovered were the People of Zarahemla (Sometimes called the Mulekites among a lot of the Latter-Day Saints.)

Later on among the history of the Nephites and the "Mulekites," it is mentioned that there are more of the People of Zarahemla than there are of the Nephites, and more Lamanites than there are of the descendants of Nephi and of the People of Zarahemla.
Let us now go to Mosiah Chapter 25, Verses one through four:

Mosiah 25:

[1] And now king Mosiah caused that all the people should be gathered together.

[2] Now there were not so many of the children of Nephi, or so many of those who were descendants of Nephi, as there were of the people of Zarahemla, who was a descendant of Mulek, and those who came with him into the wilderness.

[3] And there were not so many of the people of Nephi and of the people of Zarahemla as there were of the Lamanites; yea, they were not half so numerous.

[4] And now all the people of Nephi were assembled together, and also all the people of Zarahemla, and they were gathered together in two bodies.

It is Possibe that the Lamanites later on in their history, joined in with a group of other People that met them within the Promised land, since it is mentioned that the Lamanites were more numerous than the descendants of Nephi and the People of Zarahemla.
Or was it Possible?

REINVENTING LAMANITE IDENTITY:
http://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/131%2020-25.pdf

[_Brackite]

This Important Discussion Thread needs to be Bumped up.

We can also assume preaching took place in those 10 years. When Nephi takes his cadre of believers with him, he mentions specific names and adds “all those who would go with me” suggesting these un-named folks were “those who believed in the warnings and the revelations of God” (2. Ne 5:6). So with preaching let’s assume 60 additional people were also now part of the party.

To add, we still had Nephi’s sisters. Its probably not completely safe to assume, but let’s do it anyway. Let’s say 2 of Nephi’s sisters married locals.

The sum at Lehi’s death then, 142.

The LDS Apologist Jeff Lindsay, also makes a similar Point about 2nd Nephi Chapter five, verses five and six on his DNA Book of Mormon Web Site Page.
The Following is from his DNA Book of Mormon Web Site Page:

In reviewing a work of John Sorenson (Nephite Culture and Society: Selected Papers, Salt Lake City: New Sage Books, 1997), Brant A. Gardner notes additional factors that point to the presence of others that Lehi and his group almost certainly encountered upon coming to the Americas (Gardner, 2001; see also Brant Gardner's online article, "A Social History of the Early Nephites"). For example, 2 Nephi 5:5,6 lists people in Lehi's group who went with Nephi as he split from Laman and Lemuel and their followers. Nephi lists his family, Sam and his family, Zoram and his family, Jacob and Joseph, his sisters, "and all those who would go with me." He then explains that "all those who would go with me were those who believed in the warnings and revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my words" (2 Nephi 5:6). It appears that Laman, Lemuel, and the sons of Ishmael, who had been antagonistic to Nephi, are those left behind. The group of unnamed "others" seems by necessity to have included people other than those who came with Nephi from Jerusalem. If there were only one or two others, we would expect Nephi to list them. It's hard to say how many there might have been, but perhaps members of a local hamlet or group of hamlets may have allied with the technologically superior Old World group, helping the latter to learn how to survive in the New World while benefiting from their technology (particularly knowledge of metals).

Link: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/DNA.shtml



Is this really a correct interpretation of 2nd Nephi Chapter five, verses five and six? Remember that the Prophet Nephi does Not mention other People within 1st Nephi Chapter 18, verse 25.
Here is that Scriptural Passage again:

1 Nephi 18:

[25] And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper.

Let us now go to Jacob Chapter seven, verse 26:

Jacob 7:

[26] And it came to pass that I, Jacob, began to be old; and the record of this people being kept on the other plates of Nephi, wherefore, I conclude this record, declaring that I have written according to the best of my knowledge, by saying that the time passed away with us, and also our lives passed away like as it were unto us a dream, we being a lonesome and a solemn people, wanderers, cast out from Jerusalem, born in tribulation, in a wilderness, and hated of our brethren, which caused wars and contentions; wherefore, we did mourn out our days.

(Italic Emphasized Mine.)


We can see by comparing 1st Nephi Chapter 18, verse 25 with Jacob Chapter seven, verse 26 that the Passage of 2nd Nephi Chapter five, verses five and six does not mean what the LDS Apologist Jeff Lindsay wants it to mean. We must conclude in light of the Passages of 1st Nephi Chapter 18, verse 25 with Jacob Chapter seven, verse 26 that the Passage of 2nd Nephi Chapter five, verses five and six means that there were only one or two others who went with the People of Nephi who were Not Native Americans.
Remember that Scripture interprets Scripture.

In Jacob’s account we learn that “evils” crept in among the Nephites. Many wives and concubines. I don’t’ know how that would work without outsiders, to tell the truth.

The Phrase "saith the Lord" occurs nine times within Jacob Chapter Two, verses 23 through 33.
The Prophet Jacob is most likely quoting the Revelation that his Father Lehi received while the Prophet Lehi was still in the Old World.

Please Check Out And See:
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