Eternal Family Relationships

[_Fence Sitter]

Stem,

I am not trying to drag you through the fire here so please don't feel like this is an attack. "I haven't really thought about it" is an answer I am quite used to and if you want to leave it at that we could always talk about how bad the Jazz will be next time we have a NBA season. :)

I am not good at the quote copying so I just responded by number. Sorry to cause you extra work.





1. I am not sure I understand your response here. You see no issue understanding eternity as in you can do it, or you don't see why it is important to understand it in the first place? What do you mean?

2. Why is this short life so much more important that what we did before or will do after? That question makes a lot more sense if you consider the comparative time frames. This 70 years, in the LDS theology, is supposed to have eternal consequences. Really? 70 years vs billions and billions? Who thought up this plan? It’s like telling you 2 year old that he has to choose which college he is going to and hold him to it.

3. I look forward to, and in fact have some of those type or relationships now. What I struggle with is the static notion of a 'perfect relationship'. What is there to look forward to in such a relationship? It is the dynamics of a relationship that are enjoyable, the interchange between two people where we share some NEW, or learn about something, or go somewhere together, all this sort of thing, things that would get very very boring after they were repeated a billion time. Stem I don't think you are considering the eternal factor in most of your answers, it is just some sort of nebulous good time but without much description of what that entails and how that remains interesting over eternity. I would compare it to going to Oahu or one of the other Hawaiian Islands. Great places to visit but you go stir crazy after a while.


4. Again this response sounds great in theory but all I see is on endless soup kitchen line whose only purpose is to make me feel good about helping others. Seriously, if God is all powerful why not just create off spring that are perfect to begin with and avoid all the pain, suffering and misery that come from the way the plan works now? Let's just jump straight to the good stuff where we sit around loving each other and feeling good about feeling good.

5. So you don't see it as more important that you are with say your earthly family forever than any of God's other creations?



6. Yes she was boring and troublesome but the point was she would be someone else if you took that away from her. Don't you have any faults that you want to keep? If you were perfect do you think you would be the same person? I think it is our imperfections that make us unique, take that away and what are we left with?

[_harmony]

I think it is our imperfections that make us unique, take that away and what are we left with?

Gravity.

[_stemelbow]

Stem,

I am not trying to drag you through the fire here so please don't feel like this is an attack. "I haven't really thought about it" is an answer I am quite used to and if you want to leave it at that we could always talk about how bad the Jazz will be next time we have a NBA season. :)

I am not good at the quote copying so I just responded by number. Sorry to cause you extra work.

1. I am not sure I understand your response here. You see no issue understanding eternity as in you can do it, or you don't see why it is important to understand it in the first place? What do you mean?

I suppose the latter rather than the former. No one "knows" what happens after we die, if anything. no one "knows" what happened before Big bang, if anything. I don't see how it can be an issue, if no one knows any of it.

2. Why is this short life so much more important that what we did before or will do after? That question makes a lot more sense if you consider the comparative time frames. This 70 years, in the LDS theology, is supposed to have eternal consequences. Really? 70 years vs billions and billions? Who thought up this plan? It’s like telling you 2 year old that he has to choose which college he is going to and hold him to it.

As best as I can do for you here is this life is important because its set up that way. We are essentially told that this life constitutes the time we have to learn and grow outside of being able to see what we see in eternity.

3. I look forward to, and in fact have some of those type or relationships now. What I struggle with is the static notion of a 'perfect relationship'. What is there to look forward to in such a relationship? It is the dynamics of a relationship that are enjoyable, the interchange between two people where we share some NEW, or learn about something, or go somewhere together, all this sort of thing, things that would get very very boring after they were repeated a billion time. Stem I don't think you are considering the eternal factor in most of your answers, it is just some sort of nebulous good time but without much description of what that entails and how that remains interesting over eternity. I would compare it to going to Oahu or one of the other Hawaiian Islands. Great places to visit but you go stir crazy after a while.

I’m not sure what the problem you have having is. The number of people involved extends from the few now to billions to, essentially, infinite. The joy I have for knowing, loving, appreciating so many people gets me excited. I can’t quite grasp getting to enjoy such relationships with very few now. Oh well. You think it sounds boring. Some people don’t like basketball and may find it boring too. What can we do about that? We can force people to like it.

4. Again this response sounds great in theory but all I see is on endless soup kitchen line whose only purpose is to make me feel good about helping others. Seriously, if God is all powerful why not just create off spring that are perfect to begin with and avoid all the pain, suffering and misery that come from the way the plan works now? Let's just jump straight to the good stuff where we sit around loving each other and feeling good about feeling good.

So powerful to create beings out of nothing? I don’t think that’s powerful at all. I’ve explained this many times. As it is, I see it more as inviting more and more folks into the realm of wonderful joyous love, appreciation and joy. While vague allusions to nothing to you, it seems, it is music to my ears.

5. So you don't see it as more important that you are with say your earthly family forever than any of God's other creations?

I don’t know how to engage the importance of it all, but my hope will always be that I can enjoy relationships with every stinking being there is for eternity. I realize people simply won’t choose to join in. Some will find such things boring, I suppose. Some actually don’t like basketball.

6. Yes she was boring and troublesome but the point was she would be someone else if you took that away from her. Don't you have any faults that you want to keep? If you were perfect do you think you would be the same person? I think it is our imperfections that make us unique, take that away and what are we left with?

I’d say its far more than imperfections that make us unique.

[_Fence Sitter]

Thanks Stem,

I appreciate the time you took to respond.

I want to think about some of your answers and will respond later.

[_Patriarchal gripe]

The groundhog day movie sums up the problem with "eternal life" quite succinctly, in a sophomoric way.

I think the only way a thinking being could withstand the onslaught of the millenia would either be to crawl in a wormhole in some distant galaxy and take a long, long, nap, or lose absolutely any shred of free will and give yourself over to an existence where you have no choice. To have unlimited choice to create/destroy, screw/abstain, do good/evil, etc, would be mundane and boring.

Like the movie, the only relief one would feel would be to break the feedback loop and get back on the path to one's own death.

[_Fence Sitter]

The groundhog day movie sums up the problem with "eternal life" quite succinctly, in a sophomoric way.

I think the only way a thinking being could withstand the onslaught of the millenia would either be to crawl in a wormhole in some distant galaxy and take a long, long, nap, or lose absolutely any shred of free will and give yourself over to an existence where you have no choice. To have unlimited choice to create/destroy, screw/abstain, do good/evil, etc, would be mundane and boring.

Like the movie, the only relief one would feel would be to break the feedback loop and get back on the path to one's own death.

There was a original Star Trek episode that dealt with this. Kirk & Spock and a few others were kidnapped by this all powerful being who out of boredom was toying with them in a western town he had created. Some of his fellow omniscient beings showed up and chided him for teasing the humans and asked him why. "Have you tried being the mailbox"? pointing to a near by run down looking mail box. The response was "I have been the mail box, I was the mail box for a thousand years!!!! I am tired of being the mail box!!!!"

If we are perfect, all powerful beings who can do anything we want, what is there left to do? I suspect the answer might be in the heretical notion that God, at least in Mormon theology, is not all powerful and not complete. In any case we sure seem to dedicate our lives to some notion of eternity that seems beyond our ability to understand.