Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

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_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

stemelbow wrote:Somehow I don’t think you’re any more familiar with it than I am. If Gee would have fixed the errors found by Ritner than why would Ritner recuse himself because he didn’t approve of the errors? As I said, without answer this just makes no sense.


I don't know, Stem. Clearly, the "errors"--whatever they were--were such that Ritner felt he couldn't continue on in support of Gee's doctoral work.

I don't think we know for sure what it was that Ritner objected to, exactly, though Kevin provided this snippet: "these non-Egyptological writings had the stamp of scholarly accuracy and my own personal approval as his teacher." Does this mean that Gee had published material for FARMS, and that Ritner had seen it, and objected to the notion of mentoring someone who planned to become a Mopologist? Or were there apologetic writings in the early drafts of Gee's dissertation?


Ritner should be just as concerned about granting a PhD to a candidate who supposedly didn’t deserve it. But apparently he wasn’t.


Ritner didn't grant Gee the Ph.D. He didn't sign off on the doctoral work. (He resigned, remember?) His "concern," as you put it, was made manifest in the resignation itself.


I get, stemelbow, that you'll object again and say, "But...but...Yale still gave him the Ph.D.! Why would they do that if Ritner was right?" The thing is: at that point, Ritner would have been out of the picture. While he could have continued to raise objections if he wanted to, the fact is that he really had no further power to deny the Ph.D. to Gee. It may be that Gee's new committee chair didn't share Ritner's opinion, or that Gee had edited out the problem material before he submitted it to the new chair, or that the new chair didn't object to giving a "stamp of approval" to a budding Mopologist. What I'm saying is: the granting of the Ph.D. really doesn't mean anything in terms of Ritner's abandonment of Gee's work.


Well, and in the end, what you’re saying is, you can’t be sure Ritner’s objections are anything more than bias either.[/quote]

I guess that's technically true, though Ritner himself has explained some of his reasons, and they don't match with your description. DCP has been hinting/insinuating that Gee filed a formal grievance with the Yale Graduate School, but there's no actual evidence that this happened. The best evidence we've got is Ritner's own first-hand testimony, and this states that he had serious, professional and scholarly objections to Gee's work, such that he didn't feel he could sign off on the dissertation.


So Ritner didn’t share his opinion? Is that enough o say Gee did not deserve a PhD?


Potentially---yes, it is enough. It really depends on the nature of the "opinion" in question.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

I'm a bad guy for trusting what my former student was telling me as things transpired. That's reliance on second-hand information.

I should trust the other guy in the dispute, instead. That's . . . er, not reliance on second-hand information.

I only entered into this, years ago, to defend my former student and present colleague against attack.
_MrStakhanovite
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

I think this important nugget of information pretty much clears Dan of an libel accusations.
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

MrStakhanovite wrote:I think this important nugget of information pretty much clears Dan of an libel accusations.

Nice try, MS. You can keep bumping your thread, and inserting its opening post into other threads, from now until Doomsday, for all I care.

I'll respond when and where I choose.

Hint: It won't be here.
_stemelbow
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _stemelbow »

I don't know, Stem. Clearly, the "errors"--whatever they were--were such that Ritner felt he couldn't continue on in support of Gee's doctoral work.



Well then what's the issue here? Ritner didn't think Gee deserved a PhD, it seems. Why? Neither of us know. We just know that Ritner said he spotted some errors in his works and those errors were passed on to others hoping they too would agree that Gee didn't deserve a PhD. But, in the end, Ritner was wrong. Gee was granted a PhD and these supposed errors didn't supply anyone with any reason, it seems, to withhold the candidate from his PhD. If its all a matter of opinion and not substance, then I see no issue here at all. So Ritner doesn't like Gee's work for reasons we can only speculate on? Alls it sounds like to me is Ritner doesn't like Gee. What do I care? There's no issue worth discussing it sounds like to me. There's no issue here discrediting Gee at all.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Buffalo
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _Buffalo »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
MrStakhanovite wrote:I think this important nugget of information pretty much clears Dan of an libel accusations.

Nice try, MS. You can keep bumping your thread, and inserting its opening post into other threads, from now until Doomsday, for all I care.

I'll respond when and where I choose.

Hint: It won't be here.


Quick question: why not here?

Followup: Where? Will you give notification of a response and a link to it? This kinda applies to the Book of Abraham thread too.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Buffalo wrote:Will you give notification of a response and a link to it? This kinda applies to the Book of Abraham thread too.

I intend to post a notice. And, if I remember, I will.

As it is, I appreciate the criticisms. They're helpful.

(I'm serious about that. Substantive criticism is quite rare, and I value it. But, of course, only a microscopic portion of the criticism directed against me here is substantive. Most of it is that I'm a liar and a coward and an arrogant elitist, was a bad bishop, have poor taste in literature and movies and music -- that's one of my personal favorites from Scratch -- am a racist, an anti-Semite, a voyeur, disdain science and scientists, etc.)
Last edited by Guest on Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
_Buffalo
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _Buffalo »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Buffalo wrote:Will you give notification of a response and a link to it? This kinda applies to the Book of Abraham thread too.

I intend to post a notice. And, if I remember, I will.


Cool.

So how is that different than just posting your response in the thread? It seem to amount to the same thing.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

There's far, far too much static here for serious conversation.
_Buffalo
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _Buffalo »

Daniel Peterson wrote:There's far, far too much static here for serious conversation.


Even if that were true (and weren't true of every other forum), any response you post elsewhere but link here will be discussed here.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
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