Magic is the Key

[_Some Schmo]

It seems to me that there are only two broad categories of people, and these categories determine whether or not you value rationalism over all else: Either you believe magic is possible (to one degree or another), or you don't.

What else is there?

If you're a young earth creationist, magic is all that matters. The earth was magically created in 6 days and all the evidence against that proposition was magically placed around to fool people. It makes the impossible global flood possible. No death before the fall? Easy. Virgin mothers? No problem. Talking snakes? Of course! Creating passable paths through large bodies of water? Child's play. If you could, why wouldn't you hang out in a whale's stomach for a few days? Not happy in your marriage? Too bad you aren't faithful enough to have god turn your wife into a pillar of salt, huh? Heck, faith will move mountains. Plate tectonics have nothing on us!

If you believe in miracles, you basically believe that the physical laws of the universe can be magically bent for the will of the divine.

If you believe that god intervenes, you believe he can magically change what's going on in the world to cause a different outcome.

And all this god stuff seems to happen when we're not looking. It's like when we look away, the angels and fairies work their magic, bending the measurable universal laws to their will.

Essentially, this kind of worldview is Toy Story on a grand scale. If we look away, all the toys come to life.

If we take magic out of the equation, we're left to assume that the physical world has consistency and natural cause and effect, and we can make reasonable inferences and predictions about the universe. It's little wonder that people who believe in magic have a negative attitude toward many of our most solid scientific theories.

[_Hades]

All the good magic happened a long time ago. We haven't had a good miracle since Christ's time. Now days all the magic God can muster is a quarter to buy a chicken dinner.

[_Some Schmo]

All the good magic happened a long time ago. We haven't had a good miracle since Christ's time. Now days all the magic God can muster is a quarter to buy a chicken dinner.

hehe

That's actually a really good point. It seems like god is losing steam being interested in large scale miracles. Sure, he'll magically turn your head in the right direction to make it impossible for you to not spot your car keys, but he'll be damned if he's going to help move a mountain. Hell, even turning water to wine is too much hassle.

Or maybe I'm looking at this wrong. Maybe with the increased number of people in the world, someone's always looking, so he can't squeeze in as large or as many miracles as he used to.

[_Buffalo]

All the good magic happened a long time ago. We haven't had a good miracle since Christ's time. Now days all the magic God can muster is a quarter to buy a chicken dinner.

hehe

That's actually a really good point. It seems like god is losing steam being interested in large scale miracles. Sure, he'll magically turn your head in the right direction to make it impossible for you to not spot your car keys, but he'll be damned if he's going to help move a mountain. Hell, even turning water to wine is too much hassle.

Or maybe I'm looking at this wrong. Maybe with the increased number of people in the world, someone's always looking, so he can't squeeze in as large or as many miracles as he used to.

Yeah, God can only do miracles under certain circumstances, as you've already noted:

1) No one can be looking
2) Or, if someone saw it, we it has to have happened a long time ago and we have to get third hand reports
3) Modern miracles have to be indistinguishable from chance

[_schreech]

Yeah, God can only do miracles under certain circumstances, as you've already noted:

1) No one can be looking

Lol...



When you are invisible, you just know it...

[_Some Schmo]

by the way, this "believing in magic" attribute also makes it impossible to reason with them, because they've decided it's ok to defy reason (and be unreasonable). That's why debates with believers tend to be useless. All the reason and logic in the world matters little in the face of "god can do anything!" and "anything is possible!"

Basically, it's like arguing with a child. They actually take pride in being a child of god.