Mormon Doublespeak

[_Yahoo Bot]

The Church's gathering doctrine has always been oriented to stakes.

This is simply not true.

The Church's gathering doctrine was originally to Jackson County, Missouri, in order to build the City of Zion. (After a brief way station in Ohio.)

As I mentioned in class yesterday, both the Book of Mormon (3 Nephi) and the Book of Moses teach that the City of Zion must be built before the Second Coming.

Even after the saints were driven out of Missouri, Doctrine and Covenants states that "Zion shall not be moved."

I asked the teacher whether this idea of physical gathering to one specific location has been abandoned by the Church.

(At this point, many chimed in to assure me that such was not the case, and then related the underground rumors about how the Church is actually buying property in Jackson County, Missouri.)

I asked why it was, then, that in a Church manual specifically devoted to teaching about the gathering of Israel, the words Jackson County (not to mention Missouri) are conspicuously absent.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Well then, I bow to what your teacher said. I suppose you re-asserted your view that you should not have been released as GD teacher. Why not, I ask, particularly for an unbeliever who makes anonymous attacks against his fellow Mormons.

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

consiglieri 1

yahoo bot 0

[_LDSToronto]

"When the Church was first established, the Saints were instructed to gather in Ohio, then Missouri, and then the Salt Lake Valley. Today, however, modern prophets have taught that Church members are to build up the kingdom of God in their own lands." ~ Gospel Principles, ch 42.

So, yes, the church has abandoned the literal gathering. And they've done it in favour of the ridiculous 'spiritual gathering' doctrine:

"The Israelites are to be gathered spiritually first and then physically. They are gathered spiritually as they join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and make and keep sacred covenants. This spiritual gathering began during the time of the Prophet Joseph Smith and continues today all over the world. Converts to the Church are Israelites either by blood or adoption. They belong to the family of Abraham and Jacob " ~ Gospel Principles, ch 42.

Nonsense, I say. I'm no more an Israelite than my Egyptian co-worker. My heritage hails from my mother and my father, and is not replaceable. But this is the practice of the church, isn't it? I mean, look at anyone who may be a 'Lamanite' - our South American friends and indigenous peoples have had their ancestral lineage replaced by one of Old World European heritage, according to the Book of Mormon.

No, I refuse to allow myself to be unwillingly adopted by any heritage, physically or spiritually, that I do not claim by birth or by choice.

H.

[_bcspace]

Mormons are not gathered--they are scattered. And yet the lesson (from the Gospel Principles Manual) assured all that Mormons are in fact currently "gathered."

Mormons gather by doing missionary work; they gather by doing temple work; they gather by going to church.

The time of gathering to a central location is past; today Korean Mormons gather to Korea, Swedish Mormons gather to Sweden, etc.

At ten to the hour, I raised my hand and observed that Mormons are not gathered; that doing missionary work is not gathering--it is converting; that doing temple work is not gathering--it is sealing; that attending church is not gathering--it is going to church.

I said that if that if everybody is now to "gather" where they already live, it is not "gathering," it is staying put.

I went on in response to some comments from class members, but will stop here to see if there is any interest or if this strikes a chord with anybody else.

Don't know what was being said in the lesson, but all active TBM's I know understand this and don't confuse the two. You sure you're not being persnickety?

[_jon]

Don't know what was being said in the lesson, but all active TBM's I know understand this

Both of them?

[_MCB]

In the latter days of the LDS church, only those who live in LDS-dominated communities in Utah and Idaho with no television or Internet will be able to maintain the level of ignorance necessary to believe in Mormon doctrines and the LDS church's version of history.

[_Jason Bourne]

According to Old Testament imagery, the Lord's kingdom is supported by tent stakes, and those stake are where Israel gathers.

The Church's gathering doctrine has always been oriented to stakes. For a time the Church had stakes in Missouri, Illinois and Ohio; it was acceptable to gather there. Even the prophet Joseph Smith never moved to Missouri. When the Saints went west the stakes were pulled up and for a while there were only stakes in the Great Basin.

I think the prophet Joseph Smith did move to Missouri after he was chased out of Kirtland. He was living at Far West when the town was occupied by Missouri militia and Joseph Smith was there arrested.

I take it that since you got your feelings hurt from being released as a GD teacher you've decided to take it out on the church with anonymous posts. Why bother even going? What a waste.

What' your problem Bot? Is it really the goal of the Church to dis-invite anyone who may be a bit disgruntled? Considering the apparent concern I have seen coming from the top down to reactivate members I think you are out of line with your suggestion above. I know it gets your goat when anyone complains about the over correlated Monolithic Mormonism we deal with today. But too bad. It is not your Church.

Now I will await your snotty comment about posting as an anonymous hypocrite.

[_Quasimodo]

In the latter days of the LDS church, only those who live in LDS-dominated communities in Utah and Idaho with no television or Internet will be able to maintain the level of ignorance necessary to believe in Mormon doctrines and the LDS church's version of history.

Great thought, MCB. Unfortunately, there are those who post here that have internet connections and television (presumably) that seem to be that ignorant.