Apostasy for the dead

[_Darth J]

Some of you seem to be overly concerned about ritual; having a form of apostasy, but denying the power thereof.

The Dude seems to believe that the ordinance for apostasy is excommunication or name removal. This is not accurate. Excommunication is the ecclesiastical penalty for certain types of apostasy, as delineated in the Handbook of Instructions. I would quote from that, but it would take looking stuff up and effort and all that.

Apostasy is more broad than your Pharisaical proscriptions.

Gospel Topics
Apostasy

When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy........Although there will not be another general apostasy from the truth, we must each guard against personal apostasy by keeping covenants, obeying the commandments, following Church leaders, partaking of the sacrament, and constantly strengthening our testimonies through daily scripture study, prayer, and service.

Proof that baptism is in fact the ordinance required for apostasy can be found in the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith's Nephi sock puppet explained that after being baptized:

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

2 Nephi 31:18-20

The assumption in the LDS Church is that if someone rejects the teachings of dead missionaries in the spirit world and temple work on their behalf, then this person just sits there in spirit prison. It is also assumed that a person who accepts these things goes on to spirit paradise and everything is fine, as if you're just automatically a TBM there in the netherworld. Neither of these assumptions addresses the possibility that I am, which is that, like many of us here on Earth, the ghost of a now-LDS dead person determines that the Church is not true after all. We are literally making free agency possible for all these dead LDS converts by performing the work of apostasy on their behalf.

[_Darth J]

In apostatizing on behalf of one who is dead, it may be helpful to remember the Apostasy Spectrum:

I---------------CM---------------H

I = Infidel

CM = Cafeteria Mormon

H = Heretic

An infidel, as the Latin root of the word suggests (fides), means simply "not faithful." You don't believe.

A cafeteria Mormon is apostate, although they do not realize it. They are at the midpoint of extremes in apostasy: picking and choosing what doctrines they are going to say they believe. We know from past General Authorities what happens to people who are lukewarm in picking sides in one estate of their existence when they move on to the next estate. Thus, when cafeteria Mormons are resurrected, they will be black. Please do not take this observation as racism on my part. I am simply deferring to the Lord's prophets, seers, and revelators.

A person who is determined that cafeteria Mormonism is the "true" form of Mormonism is a militant cafeteria Mormon.

A heretic is someone who is at the other extreme, who thinks the Church isn't true enough, and thus starts inventing their own ordinances, receiving their own revelations about new doctrine, and so on. This would include the ward I was in in California, where certain members who had access to the building performed the prayer circle in the Relief Society room while wearing their temple clothes.

[_Darth J]

If it is not documented on LDS records then they think you are a member in good standing (minus the tithing), and so does God.

Although I have sometimes self-identified as a New Order Mormon, I think I prefer the term "Darth Sidious Mormon."



"Are you enjoying Sunday School today, Anakin?"

[_bcspace]

Who knew turning to one's own vomit could be so entertaining?

[_Darth J]

Who knew turning to one's own vomit could be so entertaining?

And speaking of heretics, it's Mr. Primate-Spirits-in-Human-Bodies-Carried-Divine-Gametes-and-Parented-Adam-and-Eve himself!

[_Darth J]

Brother bcspace, let me offer some prophetic counsel about your heretical theories:

Dallin H. Oaks
October 1994 Ensign

Another strength Satan can exploit is a strong desire to understand everything about every principle of the gospel. How could that possibly work to our detriment? Experience teaches that if this desire is not disciplined, it can cause some to pursue their searchings beyond the fringes of orthodoxy, seeking answers to obscure mysteries rather than seeking a firmer understanding and a better practice of the basic principles of the gospel.

Some seek answers to questions God has not chosen to answer. Others receive answers—or think they receive answers—in ways that are contrary to the order of the Church. For such searchers, Satan stands ready to mislead through sophistry or spurious revelation. Persons who hunger after a full understanding of all things must discipline their questions and their methods, or they can approach apostasy without even knowing it. It may be just as dangerous to exceed orthodoxy as it is to fall short of it. The safety and happiness we are promised lie in keeping the commandments, not in discounting or multiplying them.

And here is Elder Oaks discussing cafeteria Mormonism in the context of, for example, dogmatically stating that people who do not share your political views cannot be worthy Latter-day Saints:

A related distortion is seen in the practice of those who select a few sentences from the teachings of a prophet and use them to support their political agenda or other personal purposes. In doing so, they typically ignore the contrary implications of other prophetic words, or even the clear example of the prophet’s own actions. For example, I have corresponded with several Church members who sought to use something President Ezra Taft Benson was quoted as saying as a basis for refusing to file an income tax return or to pay income taxes.

I have tried to persuade these persons that their interpretation cannot be what President Benson intended, because all who have held that sacred office, and all of the General Authorities, have faithfully filed their income tax returns and paid the taxes required by law. The servants of God are under the Master’s commands to follow him and to be examples to the flock (see 1 Tim. 4:12; 1 Pet. 5:3). We should interpret their words in the light of their works. To wrest the words of a prophet to support a private agenda, political or financial or otherwise, is to try to manipulate the prophet, not to follow him. (Emphasis in original.)

Brother bcspace, the difference between your apostasy and mine is merely one of degree.

[_Darth J]

This week, I am apostatizing for and on behalf of:

Heavy D,

who is dead.