"Drastic Measures Were Called For"

[_beefcalf]

Having purposely avoided reading much D&C as a TBM since so much of it seemed threatening to testimony, I wasn't aware of this smoking gun issue. Thanks for bringing it up.

Buffalo, what is amazing to me is the nature of Gregory Smith's defense of D&C 124.

First, he compares the language used in other verses, addressed to other prominent saints of the time, to the language used to Bennett.

12 And again, verily I say unto you, let my servant Robert B. Thompson help you to write this proclamation, for I am well pleased with him, and that he should be with you;
13 Let him, therefore, hearken to your counsel, and I will bless him with a multiplicity of blessings; let him be faithful and true in all things from henceforth, and he shall be great in mine eyes;
14 But let him remember that his stewardship will I require at his hands.
15 And again, verily I say unto you, blessed is my servant Hyrum Smith; for I, the Lord, love him because of the integrity of his heart, and because he loveth that which is right before me, saith the Lord.
16 Again, let my servant John C. Bennett help you in your labor in sending my word to the kings and people of the earth, and stand by you, even you my servant Joseph Smith, in the hour of affliction; and his reward shall not fail if he receive counsel.
17 And for his love he shall be great, for he shall be mine if he do this, saith the Lord. I have seen the work which he hath done, which I accept if he continue, and will crown him with blessings and great glory.
18 And again, I say unto you that it is my will that my servant Lyman Wight should continue in preaching for Zion, in the spirit of meekness, confessing me before the world; and I will bear him up as on eagles’ wings; and he shall beget glory and honor to himself and unto my name.
19 That when he shall finish his work I may receive him unto myself, even as I did my servant David Patten, who is with me at this time, and also my servant Edward Partridge, and also my aged servant Joseph Smith, Sen., who sitteth with Abraham at his right hand, and blessed and holy is he, for he is mine.
20 And again, verily I say unto you, my servant George Miller is without guile; he may be trusted because of the integrity of his heart; and for the love which he has to my testimony I, the Lord, love him.
21 I therefore say unto you, I seal upon his head the office of a bishopric, like unto my servant Edward Partridge, that he may receive the consecrations of mine house, that he may administer blessings upon the heads of the poor of my people, saith the Lord. Let no man despise my servant George, for he shall honor me.

The praise for Bennett is, in fact, rather mild. In the same section, the Lord is "well pleased," (v. 1, 12) with others, who are described as "blessed" (v. 15), "holy" (v. 19), "without guile" (v. 20), and praised for "integrity of…heart." No such language is applied to Bennett.

Mr. Smith is stating that he sees a fundamental difference between the praised heaped upon the others and the praise for Bennett in verses 16 and 17. What did the Lord say about Bennett?

I have seen the work which he hath done, which I accept if he continue, and will crown him with blessings and great glory.

To be able to read this passage and then infer from it that God was somehow less than pleased with Bennett takes an intellect having only a passing familiarity with reason.

Bennet is instructed to support Joseph in difficulty and receive counsel (rather than give it, as is his wont) if he wishes a reward. Bennett is told he "will be" the Lord's because of his love if he obeys-he is offered a transformation of his nature, if he will accept it. The Lord promised to accept his work "if he continue" (v. 20, emphasis added). What work had Bennett performed?

A bill for the Nauvoo charter was submitted to the Illinois legislature on November 28, 1840. By 16 December, the charter was approved, and "both Mormon and non-Mormon sources give Bennett much credit for the passage of the Charter." Section 124 thus approves Bennett's political work on behalf of the Saints and offers provisional blessings-it says nothing of Bennett's current state before God. The same can be said of the patriarchal blessing given by Hyrum Smith to Bennett on September 21, 1840, which three times makes its promises contingent on faithfulness. It also notes that Bennett may "step aside from the path of rectitude…because of temptation," and promises that God will "call after" him in such a case while cautioning against turning "aside from the truth for the popularity of the world." Such a warning was well-placed, and Bennett did not heed it. Prestige and power were always his over-riding goals.

Even the First Presidency's message about Bennett, printed four days before the receipt of the D&C 124 revelation, said nothing about Bennett's moral character or spiritual gifts. He was described as one who had helped protect them from persecution by securing passage of the Nauvoo charter, and as simply "a man of enterprise, extensive acquirements, and of independent mind, and is calculated to be a great blessing to our community." Bennett had helped already, and had great potential, but the praise was all secular - not spiritual.

Bottom line for FAIR author Smith seems to be that the passages in D&C 124 which addressed Bennett were solely applicable to Bennett's secular accomplishments, and have nothing whatsoever to do with any spiritual or moral failings.

So, let's look into the mind of God, as postulated by FAIR's Smith:

"John C. Bennett, although you have abandoned your lawful wife and children to a life of destitution, and have had unlawful carnal intercourse with many of my earthly daughters in Nauvoo, and have committed murders in the wombs of those women with whom you have had adulterous carnal intercourse, and have conspired to murder the husband of one of my daughters, I will ignore these things because of great work you have done bringing to pass the Nauvoo charter. I accept this great work and will crown you with blessings and great glory, if you continue"

Yeah, I call B.S.

[_Buffalo]

So, let's look into the mind of God, as postulated by FAIR's Smith:

"John C. Bennett, although you have abandoned your lawful wife and children to a life of destitution, and have had unlawful carnal intercourse with many of my earthly daughters in Nauvoo, and have committed murders in the wombs of those women with whom you have had adulterous carnal intercourse, and have conspired to murder the husband of one of my daughters, I will ignore these things because of great work you have done bringing to pass the Nauvoo charter. I accept this great work and will crown you with blessings and great glory, if you continue"

Yeah, I call B.S.

Yes, it's hard to imagine God crowning an abortionist with blessings and great glory simply because he worked on a charter. Total BS there.

Of course, God's powers of discernment don't seem to have fared any better with other, more sincere practitioners of the faith. Think of all the patriarchal blessings where people were promised they would see the second coming.

In my blessing, the one and only part of it that was specific enough to apply to me and not just a sort of generic thing was a part mentioning my specific talents. The patriarch (a nice man) asked me what they were ahead of time so he could include them in the blessing. So the blessing was a combination of cold and hot reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_reading

Apparently God is unable to read our thoughts, and must use the same techniques as fortune tellers and other scam artists to give blessings.

[_beefcalf]

I recently watched "My Kid Could Paint That." It's documentary about the rise of a child prodigy painter. I don't want to give away the details of the film, but I highly recommend you watch it.

EA, that sounds intriguing... I will make a point of looking it up.

Thanks!

[_Joseph]

Joseph had made up his mind to confess the whole con but after a few glasses of wine he forgot all about his plan. See, breaking the word of wisdom led to his downfall.

[_Buffalo]

Joseph had made up his mind to confess the whole con but after a few glasses of wine he forgot all about his plan. See, breaking the word of wisdom led to his downfall.

What do you think would be the reaction if we found an authentic document from Joseph Smith, admitting that he made up the whole thing about gold plates, angelic visitations, the Book of Abraham etc?

I'm almost 100% sure the apologists would find a way to explain it away and then move on.

"This was at a very low point in the prophet's life. I'm sure he wished he had made the whole thing up so he could be released from the responsibility of being the Lord's anointed."

[_Runtu]

What do you think would be the reaction if we found an authentic document from Joseph Smith, admitting that he made up the whole thing about gold plates, angelic visitations, the Book of Abraham etc?

I'm almost 100% sure the apologists would find a way to explain it away and then move on.

"This was at a very low point in the prophet's life. I'm sure he wished he had made the whole thing up so he could be released from the responsibility of being the Lord's anointed."

Here's how it would go:

1. It's a fake, an anti-Mormon forgery (probably a leftover from Mark Hofmann).

2. We don't know what he meant by that. It could be a code for something else.

3. He was speaking as a man.

[_Fence Sitter]

What do you think would be the reaction if we found an authentic document from Joseph Smith, admitting that he made up the whole thing about gold plates, angelic visitations, the Book of Abraham etc?

I'm almost 100% sure the apologists would find a way to explain it away and then move on.

"This was at a very low point in the prophet's life. I'm sure he wished he had made the whole thing up so he could be released from the responsibility of being the Lord's anointed."

I really don't see this as much of an argument against the apologist. If acceptable proof to all was produced that he did make the whole thing up it would be easy to say that such inspiration was from God. They would still point to the Book of Mormon (rightly so) and claim divine intervention. You and I would not accept such reasoning, but to those who believe in supernatural phoenomena it is a small change from a vision to a dream.

I think the number of believing LDS that view the Book of Mormon as a 19th century document is growing.

[_Themis]

What do you think would be the reaction if we found an authentic document from Joseph Smith, admitting that he made up the whole thing about gold plates, angelic visitations, the Book of Abraham etc?

I'm almost 100% sure the apologists would find a way to explain it away and then move on.

"This was at a very low point in the prophet's life. I'm sure he wished he had made the whole thing up so he could be released from the responsibility of being the Lord's anointed."

Here's how it would go:

1. It's a fake, an anti-Mormon forgery (probably a leftover from Mark Hofmann).

2. We don't know what he meant by that. It could be a code for something else.

3. He was speaking as a man.

I remember DCP saying this was the only thing that would make him concede the church is not true. I was a little surprised, but then it explains why some have so much evidence yet wont change their beliefs.

[_Yong Xi]

Not that I know of. But neither do we have any personal writings (correspondence, newspaper clippings, journal entries, meeting minutes, etc.) which demonstrate directly or even indirectly that they were true believers in their con and that what they were doing was right. Or condoned/authorized by God.

We do for Joseph Smith.

Regards,
MG

OK. Joseph said he was authorized by God. That is what religious fraudsters do. All of them.

The fact that Joseph said he was authorized by God does nothing to increase the likelihood that he was.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Yeah, I've never really found the apologists' argument convincing--i.e., that Joseph Smith would never possibly die in order to avoid being "exposed." People are willing to give up their lives for all sorts of strange reasons. All that said, with regards to Hofmann, I rather think that this fear of exposure is even more acute in Mormonism. With all the secrecy woven into the texture of the culture, plus the brow-beating talks from the pulpit about Jesus seeing everything you do, or Vaughn Featherstone's terrifying "Scroll of Sins" in the sky, this probably doesn't come as much of a surprise. Heck, we've got examples of this right in front of our eyes in the form of the Mopologists: you can't ask for a more obvious example of deception than Gee's "two inks" thing, or Peterson & Hamblin's "2nd Watson Letter," and yet these guys steadfastly refuse to just fess up and make amends. They apparently would rather go down in flames than do the right, saintly thing.