Lemmon said most Provo residents are religious and have a tendency to stigmatize discussion of sexual assault and sometimes to demonize the survivor.
He said he developed this opinion about 25 years ago when he moved to Provo and investigated the case of a first-semester freshman — the most common profile of a BYU rape victim — who was abducted while walking home from the campus library. The man took her inside his car and drove to Kiwanis park where he raped and sodomized her and threw her out of the car. It was nearly two years before the woman was emotionally stable enough to talk to Lemmon about the rape. "She said something that blew me away. She said, 'I should have died before I let him do that to me,' " Lemmon said. "I was troubled that she had to believe that."
Lemmon read from a letter written by a BYU rape victim who shared a similar belief.
"I'm a perversion to the good saints of my church," wrote the victim, who said she wished she were dead. Tragic thoughts like these are common among rape victims in Provo, Lemmon said.
Lemmon said rape survivors need to understand that God still loves them, that they are still "clean and pure," and that they have their whole lives ahead of them.
Otherwise, he said, "We're sending women the wrong message. We're saying 'You should be dead. You're a sinful woman because you survived. In a rape setting, there is no loss of virtue or chastity.' "
“Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation when there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one’s virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.”
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, LDS Prophet, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 196
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
My dad often told us that one of the prophets had said:" That he would rather see his child come home in a coffin than having lost his/her chastity". I clearly remember how it made me feel. That I as a person wasn't important. I definately didn't understand how he could feel that way about me. I thought that a parent should feel otherwise. My dad focused on virtue and sexuality from very early on in our lives. We were 3 pretty girls. He would look at us and made us feel dirty if we sat on the couch spreading our legs wearing pantyhoses. He would scold us and make us sit properly even though we were very young. He talked about templemarriage and sex when we were too young. Sex was clearly in his point of view dirty and very wrong outside marriage. He also taught us that men only think about sex and that we should watch out. Clearly he didn't get any, only once in a while and therefore he thought that all women wasn't very interested in sex. Our barbiedolls was not allowed naked. He would switch channel if a woman had a cleavage that was to revealing. He often made us feel wrong and shamefull about our bodies. This has given me some serious problems with my sexuality. I have a hard time receiving oral sex. I have sometimes felt so terrible about being touched that I have considered if I have been a victim of incest early on in my life. I have cried during intercourse because it just felt like I was being raped (my body reacted on its own)even though I loved my husband very much. My body was dirty. We have been married almost 12 years now. fortunately our sexlife has improved since then. I have never had problems giving but only recieving After I stopped going to church this january I feel more relaxed during sex. I feel much more attractive! especially since I dropped wearing those awful garments. I didn't know that coming to church actually affected my sexuality. I think that the role we have as women in the church conflicts with the desires and fantasies that is a part of a normal relationship.. The church focuses so much on virtue when you are growing up and being a teenager, that is is very hard to find it natural and wonderful when you finally are allowed in marriage. I am so glad that I have left the church personally but also for my childrens sake. I hope that they will find out about sex in a natural way. By me. By their own interest. I was actually forced the opposite way by my dads constant focusing on virtue. It made me curious. And I lost my virginity in a wrong way. With a lot of shame and not love. I regret all the guilt I have had about losing my virtue before marriage. I regret that I have hated myself so much. That I have felt less worthy than others. I am grateful that I have lost my testimony of the church. That I have been able to be set free of all the chains that binds you in Mormonism. If you have any thoughts on chastity please share them.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
I don't know where those rape victims got those crazy ideas. Obviously not from the church, because those quotes aren't official doctrine. They must have been members of those "rogue" wards that taught those weird "rogue" things.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
“Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation when there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one’s virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.”
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, LDS Prophet, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 196
It is not enough to cowardly suggest 'well The Miracle of Forgiveness isn't doctrine.' It was Mormon prophet who said it, and a good number of members are propagating it. They have the moral obligation to correct and repudiate it.
DarkHelmet wrote:I don't know where those rape victims got those crazy ideas. Obviously not from the church, because those quotes aren't official doctrine. They must have been members of those "rogue" wards that taught those weird "rogue" things.
Mormons like to blame the bad things about Mormonism on Mormon culture. But usually you can trace it back to the teachings of the leadership.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
I've met at least 8 divorced Mormon women at LDS singles dances who told me that they married their rapists.....and they were NOT joking. The sad thing is, you really can't trust when a Mormon woman tells you she was "raped". It could mean anything from stranger-abduction-forced-rape to pressured consentual sex where the guy never called her back for a second date. In the mind of a Mormon woman "rape" could mean almost anything.
Yes, President Spencer W. Kimball taught that if a girl is forcibly raped, she loses her virtue:
"It is better to die in defending one’s virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.”
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, LDS Prophet, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 196
Daheshist wrote:I've met at least 8 divorced Mormon women at LDS singles dances who told me that they married their rapists.....and they were NOT joking. The sad thing is, you really can't trust when a Mormon woman tells you she was "raped". It could mean anything from stranger-abduction-forced-rape to pressured consentual sex where the guy never called her back for a second date. In the mind of a Mormon woman "rape" could mean almost anything.
Yes, President Spencer W. Kimball taught that if a girl is forcibly raped, she loses her virtue:
"It is better to die in defending one’s virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.”
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, LDS Prophet, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 196
Your input in my thread - it's not wanted.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
DarkHelmet wrote:I don't know where those rape victims got those crazy ideas. Obviously not from the church, because those quotes aren't official doctrine. They must have been members of those "rogue" wards that taught those weird "rogue" things.
Mormons like to blame the bad things about Mormonism on Mormon culture. But usually you can trace it back to the teachings of the leadership.
That's a big problem for the Church. If a Pope says something stupid, modern Catholics can say that he was just a silly Pope. If a Mormon Prophet says something embarrassing, it has to be danced around and alternative explanations must be found because he is God's voice on earth. Making a lot of work for apologists.
The Mormon Church has a specific problem that no other religion I know of has. A living Prophet.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Daheshist wrote:I've met at least 8 divorced Mormon women at LDS singles dances who told me that they married their rapists.....and they were NOT joking.
Are you sure they weren't joking, because that sounds pretty goddamned hilarious. </sarcasm>
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level." ~ Ernest Becker "Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death." ~ Simone de Beauvoir