Thanks, LDS church! Californians now support gay marriage

[_Buffalo]

Would this overwhelming support in California for gay marriage have happened without the church's meddling and bringing the issue to the forefront of people's minds? I don't think so. Thanks to the Mormon church, a wave of pro-gay marriage sentiment is sweeping the nation! Thanks Tommy!

nice pipe dream but a bad display of reasoning (as in r*******).
california elected arnold and re-elected brown, went bankrupt, and recently voted to mandate condom use in all porn films.......not exactly a hot bed of intellect and certainly not representative of the national attitude. After all they could only turn over the voter mandate with an actual gay judge who coincidentally wanted to marry.
More importantly, 7 states doth a "sweep" make...there are more states that actually have bona-fide constitutional bans on gay marriage, your sweep barely hits 14 percent of the states......yawn.
no matter how the LGBT rise in popularity due to increasing exertion of political power and lowest common denominator marketing, they will eventually regress to the status that many "fads" have and are destined to do.......like cabbage patch dolls....pet rocks.
The cause has no long lasting virtue, it has no integrity, it has no substantial foundation and thus has no real social durability....ultimately time is on my side, not theirs.....which is further illustrated by their haste.

You're in serious denial. Most Americans in general support gay marriage, and it's being legalized faster and faster. I'm sure you would have thought that the civil rights movement was a fad if this were 1963, too.

but its interesting to see you unashamed in your support for incestuous marriage as well.

I'm sure your parents thought they were in love, but the malformed fruit of their union is reason enough for me to oppose it.

[_Buffalo]

When I pointed out that many scholars argue [gender is socially constructed] (and gave some explanation to support my point)...

Not worth a tinker's dam.

he dismissively replied, "I could easily defeat that argument in a focus group." It was a fascinating glimpse into the mind of a lawyer/lobbyist, which is strikingly different from my training as an academic.

Pseudo-academic.

Aggressive ignorance.

[_Yahoo Bot]

I'm saying that Yahoo is being two-faced when he holds the view that government should not meddle in religion but that it is acceptable for religion (not a group of individuals) to meddle in government.

Certainly this is one of the debates of the ages in religion.

The Supreme Court said in dicta that religion should stay out of politics, but it was only dicta and nothing was ever done about it.

Since and before then, religion has been directly involved in:

Capital punishment opposition (Catholics)
Abortion opposition (Catholics)
Using public money to fund parochial schools (Catholics)
Opposing use of public money for parochial schools (EVs)
Free speech in verbal attacks on Catholics (JWs)
Abolition of slave trading (EVs)
Abolition of slavery (EVs)
Abolition of Mormon polygamy (Presbyterians, Baptists)
Support for slavery (southern EVs)
Prohibition (Evangelicals, Mormons, Muslims)
Opposition to the Civil War (EVs), WWI (EVs), WWII (EVs and Mormons for a brief time), Gulf War (EVs).
Opposition to the MX missile (Mormons)
Support for blue laws (EVs).
Opposition to blue laws (Catholics, Jews)
Family law custody reform issues (EVs; Catholics)
Gay Marriage opposition (black churches, EVs, Catholics, Islam and Mormon)

So far, except for an issue I'm dealing with in the gay marriage fight, government and the courts have said nothing about restricting the right of religion to speak out.

[_Milesius]

Aggressive ignorance.

Apart from leaving off pretentious, that is properly descriptive of you.

[_Buffalo]

Aggressive ignorance.

Apart from leaving off pretentious, that is properly descriptive of you.

Ah, the devastating, "I know you are, but what am I" riposte. Egad! Clearly I'm in the presence of a superior mind! I shall retreat posthaste, lest you follow up with the equally devastating rubber and glue gambit!

[_CaliforniaKid]

Moreover, I would have never said that I was involved in "focus groups" to deliver the Prop 8 message because, as I have always understood it, the Prop 8 campaign was developed around polling results advanced by coalition pollster Gary Lawrence.

Actually, I think you're right. I'm confusing your talk with Gary Lawrence's. (You spoke on consecutive weeks on more or less the same topic, thus my confusion.) My deepest apologies. The story told above is accurate, but it refers to Gary Lawrence, not Robert Crockett. I'll edit the post to reflect that.

[_Yahoo Bot]

Moreover, I would have never said that I was involved in "focus groups" to deliver the Prop 8 message because, as I have always understood it, the Prop 8 campaign was developed around polling results advanced by coalition pollster Gary Lawrence.

Actually, I think you're right. I'm confusing your talk with Gary Lawrence's. (You spoke on consecutive weeks on more or less the same topic, thus my confusion.) My deepest apologies. The story told above is accurate, but it refers to Gary Lawrence, not Robert Crockett. I'll edit the post to reflect that.

Thank you so much. I though I was having major dementia. I was surprised to hear this coming from you. I have my own thoughts and opinions about Gary Lawrence's work on Prop 8 but that is for another day.

[_subgenius]

You're in serious denial. Most Americans in general support gay marriage, and it's being legalized faster and faster.

faster and faster is correct...from 1998 to 2006 a total of 27 states amended their constitutions to ban same sex marriage.....and some others already had the "ban" in effect.
you are tethered to a slow sinking ship....lemming.

I'm sure you would have thought that the civil rights movement was a fad if this were 1963, too.

a more idiotic attempt to correlate the noble cause of civil rights with the degenerative and self-indulgent cause of LGBT i have yet to read. You disgrace the memory of people who actually suffered for justice.

I'm sure your parents thought they were in love, but the malformed fruit of their union is reason enough for me to oppose it.

at least i had parents.
obviously you were spit out from the dirty end of a copy machine.