Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Rivendale]

Yep. And it's spiraled into a narrative that John is an abusive controlling maniac who can destroy careers and lives with a snap of his fingers simply by wielding his immense power and influence.

James Patterson quotes someone saying:

Over the years, I have seen what happens to people who publicly challenge John Dehlin. Past retaliations against those who speak out are often unpredictable and unreasonable. I’d rather not experience that

Rosebud:

At the time I knew I was in danger because of his temper, public position and the many public lies he told, but I did not have a full comprehension of the level of revenge, irrationality and anger to which he could rise.

At the time I was not safe because I understood, to some extent (although not a full extent), what kind of person John Dehlin is and was, and what he might do to me because of his guilt.

It is almost like it is the same person or they are telegraphing responses.

[jpatterson]

You’re at the river point in this poker game, and I’m calling you to show your hand. Otherwise you, like Rosebud, will be forced to fold and go home having expended your credibility anteing up with no exit strategy.

- Doc

The hits keep on coming.

First, you're not the one I'm playing poker with. I laugh at your call and walk to the bar to grab a beer.

Second, I don't need any credibility in the exmo world, therefore I need no exit strategy.

[drumdude]

s almost like it is the same person or they are telegraphing responses.

It's obvious he's copying and pasting much of what Rosebud is/has said to him directly.

[jpatterson]

I can only assume it is because that when working for Dehlin, they transferred all their previous Mormon leadership worship into him. And when they discovered he was a selfish asshole, their brains imploded and began signaling those old alarm bells that they had been duped by John just as they had been duped by Mormonism.

My theory is that people like James Patterson were so angry at Mormonism, so invested in fighting back, that they sought to work at Mormon Stories and fight the war against Mormonism. And now that John betrayed them, they're searching for a new group to channel that rage and fight the new war against the oppressive millionaire John Dehlin and his millions of followers. They can't accept a world where the Mormon Church or John Dehlin use them and lie to them, and they feel so personally attacked that they will lie about him to try and get what they see as justice.

You're absolutely spot on, except for the lying part.

It guess it could be said that I'm John Dehlin-ing John Dehlin. Bringing up unsavory history he doesn't want to talk about that eventually changes one's perspective of him and hopefully deters people from buying into what he's peddling. He's not the Church, but he's no saint either and he has considerable influence among vulnerable people trying to exit the church in a healthy way. I'd like to see his influence tempered.

Along the way, there are and will be detractors, naysayers and Dehlin-pologists. Heck, a lot of the arguments you all have made in this thread are VERBATIM what my family has said to me over the years about my qualms with the Church.

"You have no proof!!"

"You're just bitter!"

"Why don't you just move on and focus on the rest of your life!!"

It's astounding, like I said, how habits you form defending the church end up staying with you.

[drumdude]

It guess it could be said that I'm John Dehlin-ing John Dehlin. Bringing up unsavory history he doesn't want to talk about that eventually changes one's perspective of him and hopefully deters people from buying into what he's peddling. He's not the Church, but he's no saint either and he has considerable influence among vulnerable people trying to exit the church in a healthy way. I'd like to see his influence tempered.

What you don't realize is that we already accept these criticisms of Dehlin. He's a selfish asshole, as Radio Free Mormon pointed out he doesn't have many friends here on this board.

What we don't appreciate are unsubstantiated claims of sexual abuse. And nearly a decade now of "I have proof but I won't post it." It's childish, plain and simple. I'm surprised as most here that Rosebud has someone carrying her water to do it now, word for word as she has done for years.

Maybe someone should contact James Patterson to check if his persona is being used without his knowledge here.

[Rivendale]

It guess it could be said that I'm John Dehlin-ing John Dehlin. Bringing up unsavory history he doesn't want to talk about that eventually changes one's perspective of him and hopefully deters people from buying into what he's peddling. He's not the Church, but he's no saint either and he has considerable influence among vulnerable people trying to exit the church in a healthy way. I'd like to see his influence tempered.

What you don't realize is that we already accept these criticisms of Dehlin. He's a selfish asshole, as Radio Free Mormon pointed out he doesn't have many friends here on this board.

What we don't appreciate are unsubstantiated claims of sexual abuse. And nearly a decade now of "I have proof but I won't post it." It's childish, plain and simple. I'm surprised as most here that Rosebud has someone carrying her water to do it now.

Maybe someone should contact James Patterson to check if his persona is being used without his knowledge here.

It is Mike Norton and Mitt Romney's temple ceremony all over again. But for years and years.

[dastardly stem]

You’re at the river point in this poker game, and I’m calling you to show your hand. Otherwise you, like Rosebud, will be forced to fold and go home having expended your credibility anteing up with no exit strategy.

- Doc

The hits keep on coming.

First, you're not the one I'm playing poker with. I laugh at your call and walk to the bar to grab a beer.

Second, I don't need any credibility in the exmo world, therefore I need no exit strategy.

Well keep playing your games. The truth is Dr Cam, among others, exposed you. You obviously have nothing. if you had anything that could sensibly be called evidence that Dehlin acted poorly, or abusively then it's your obligation to actually get that evidence out there. Otherwise, you're simply playing games, as you admit, poking at people hoping someone along the way develops the same hate you have for Dehlin. It's incredibly stupid.

The best we got on bad behavior is it appears Dehlin might have used his influence, figuring out a way to get her canned without actually doing the canning. If he devised that...well, it was certainly a strategic move that worked, playing Joanna and the rest of the board. But again, that was nearly a decade ago. I doubt there's any recourse to take. And that allegation is a bit iffy, obviously, since in following Lem's lead you were stuck qualifying it with a parade of "ifs".

I'm glad you reached your goal of nothing. Odd, I thought your goal was to pressure Dehlin to come out with it.

[Kishkumen]

You're absolutely spot on, except for the lying part.

It guess it could be said that I'm John Dehlin-ing John Dehlin. Bringing up unsavory history he doesn't want to talk about that eventually changes one's perspective of him and hopefully deters people from buying into what he's peddling. He's not the Church, but he's no saint either and he has considerable influence among vulnerable people trying to exit the church in a healthy way. I'd like to see his influence tempered.

Along the way, there are and will be detractors, naysayers and Dehlin-pologists. Heck, a lot of the arguments you all have made in this thread are VERBATIM what my family has said to me over the years about my qualms with the Church.

"You have no proof!!"

"You're just bitter!"

"Why don't you just move on and focus on the rest of your life!!"

It's astounding, like I said, how habits you form defending the church end up staying with you.

Only you’re not really changing anyone’s perception of John or Rosebud. You’re treading water. Or, you are further damaging Rosebud’s tiny remaining portion of sympathy and credibility. Scratch that, she lost both last night on Mormonism Live, and she has no one to blame but herself.

And for the record, few people here have formed the habits you ascribe to us. We just know a dead horse when it’s being beaten.

[drumdude]

It is Mike Norton and Mitt Romney's temple ceremony all over again. But for years and years.

She's definitely changed tactics.

1) Find someone who doesn't know the difference between being an asshole and sexually harassing someone
2) Send them some of the emails and texts
3) Have them tell everyone "I've seen the evidence and I agree with Rosebud but I can't tell you any of the evidence"

I can't imagine how exhausting and distressing it is for John knowing that this woman has dedicated the rest of her life to finding new ways to keep these lies alive.

[Doctor Steuss]

If I were Rosebud, I’d likely ask my “friends” to stop trying to white-knight for me on forums. Each time someone (who is totally not her) posts to support her, they end up eroding away at her credibility and making it more difficult to be overall sympathetic.

I’d hope that her friends at this point would do what many on this forum (and its predecessor) have tried to do. Convince her to begin the healing process in earnest, and seek out the assistance of a professional mental healthcare practitioner.


Edited to add:

[...] tiny remaining portion of sympathy and credibility [...]

It seems to be obvious to everyone except the people claiming to be her advocate.