liz3564 wrote:Paul, I am really curious about your metamorphasis with this.
When I first met you, you were one of the most formidable apologists for the Book of Abraham.
Would you mind starting a thread detailing how you changed your thinking on this?
It's true that I had influence in defending the Book of Abraham on the Internet for several years and received a lot of well wishes from people who benefited from my articles and ideas. It's one of the toughest things to have to defend because there are so many things that point to fraud but you have to somehow make turns and twists and put frosting on it to make it look eatable. These days I pretty much am left to just taking jabs at the Book of Abraham and write very little against it in order to keep my blood pressure from rising. So, I just keep harping on Facsmile No. 3 because the apologists can't get past, behind, or over it. The apologists are simply stuck. When you pull out the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 from under the Book of Abraham the whole thing comes crashing down. It's one of the legs that holds the story and authority of the divine claims that Joseph was actually translating Egyptian. And of course, everyone (including John Gee) knows that the translations of the Explanation are not true. So it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the apologists. A bitter pill to swallow!
I just can't get into detailed discussions of the Book of Abraham these days. It's not good for my health. But I appreciate your desire to know more about my story and venture in defending that work and finally being forced to have to drop it because it was no longer doable. There are few people who want to defend the Book of Abraham because it's such a lost cause.
Themis wrote:by the way still waiting for you to provide evidence Egyptians were sacrificing humans to their Gods during Abraham's time. This should be simple seeing that they do have a fair bit of evidence of Egyptians for you to go through.
I have already answered this. You just can't see past the preconceptions you've developed. You either believe falsely that the Book of Abraham indicates the people of Ur of Chaldees were Egyptian or embraced the Egyptian religion. Neither is indicated by the text. They adopted Egyptian gods (like was often the case throughout the region) and had a priest dedicated to these Gods. This would not have discontinued other practices such as human sacrifice.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:I have already answered this. You just can't see past the preconceptions you've developed. You either believe falsely that the Book of Abraham indicates the people of Ur of Chaldees were Egyptian or embraced the Egyptian religion. Neither is indicated by the text.
You haven't answered it at all, and what you claim are my preconceptions you can't quote since they don't exist. I never stated Ur of the Chaldees was Egyptian. You might try reading the text.
They adopted Egyptian gods (like was often the case throughout the region) and had a priest dedicated to these Gods. This would not have discontinued other practices such as human sacrifice.
What group are you talking about? The Egyptians in Abraham's time show no evidence of sacrificing humans to their Gods. Show some evidence like we have asked multiple times.
And this is why I usually ignore you. I don't know if it is that you act ignorant of the topic at hand or it is purely a mental problem, but I really can't make it any more clear to you and your failure to grasp what is said is not my problem.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
And this is why I usually ignore you. I don't know if it is that you act ignorant of the topic at hand or it is purely a mental problem, but I really can't make it any more clear to you and your failure to grasp what is said is not my problem.
You usually just ramble with a few assertions without substance. You get upset that some of us ask for the substance. Now where is the evidence of Egyptians in Abraham's times sacrificing humans to their Gods. This is one of the cores issues of this discussion, and you keep trying to dodge the request for evidence. I really don't think my request is unfair in any way.
by the way you never addressed your incorrect accusations of what I never said.
And this is why I usually ignore you. I don't know if it is that you act ignorant of the topic at hand or it is purely a mental problem, but I really can't make it any more clear to you and your failure to grasp what is said is not my problem.
I see you have no intentions of even trying to see if there is any evidence for your assertions. This is the problem I see from the apologetic mind set. You think you have the truth and are not interested in seeing what the evidence says. You make stuff up as you have been in this thread and think this constitutes evidence. It doesn't. I call this the possibility game. Here you are suggesting that maybe some groups that were sacrificing humans to their Gods later adapted the Egyptian Gods but continued with human sacrificing. The problem is that you think this is evidence. It's just asserting a possibility without substance. We are asking you to provide the substance or evidence that some group in the past did as you want to assert. Until then you have nothing and the problem in the text does not go away. It's the same thing with Ur.
Duuuude. Not cool. Even I learned my lesson on this issue with Mr. Droopy.
- VRDRC
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
