Retrench or Mainstream: The choice has been made

[_RockSlider]

When I was in YW, we had to wear a dress to Mutual every Wednesday night, and we also had to wear dresses to all Stake dances.

Liz's mom: Liz honey, don't you know those boys just ask you to climb that tree so they can see your underwear?

Liz: yes mom, I fooled them today and took off my underwear!

[_beastie]

But TBM's aren't paying 10% of their gross because of the poetic or narrative richness of the Book of Mormon, they are paying 10% of their gross because they believe the Book of Mormon is what it purports to be and what its author purported it to be.

This is why I said that mainstreaming does come with a cost. Once the "one true" part is a little less clear due to these issues and the church tolerating some divergent views of said issues, then people do tend to become less committed.

I'm not saying that the church would FORMALLY adopt new teachings regarding these issues. I'm just saying that while the same old teachings would be "on the books", in practice, they would be less central.

I participated in a liberal Episcopalian church for a while after leaving the LDS church, and used to look through the prayer book when a bit bored. I was shocked at what was "on the books" in my liberal church. It sounded, on the books, like hell-fire damnation. I don't think they ever formally renounced those old teachings, or, obviously, even took them out of the prayer book. But they certainly weren't a part of the practice of my church.

[_beastie]

Point taken, but I liked how KevinSim phrased the current moment as a "balancing act." I'm not sure the "final" (in the sense that anything here is ever final re: "continuing revelation") direction has been chosen. I think a lot of the balls are still up in the air and the wind could change rather quickly depending on the outcomes of this Fall (to mix metaphors horrifically).

You're probably right. It will be fascinating to watch. I used to think the evolution would take longer than my lifetime, but I think we have a good chance of seeing quite a bit of it. Maybe the promise of political power that Romney has awakened has expedited the process.

[_lulu]

But TBM's aren't paying 10% of their gross because of the poetic or narrative richness of the Book of Mormon, they are paying 10% of their gross because they believe the Book of Mormon is what it purports to be and what its author purported it to be.

This is why I said that mainstreaming does come with a cost. Once the "one true" part is a little less clear due to these issues and the church tolerating some divergent views of said issues, then people do tend to become less committed.

I'm not saying that the church would FORMALLY adopt new teachings regarding these issues. I'm just saying that while the same old teachings would be "on the books", in practice, they would be less central.

I participated in a liberal Episcopalian church for a while after leaving the LDS church, and used to look through the prayer book when a bit bored. I was shocked at what was "on the books" in my liberal church. It sounded, on the books, like hell-fire damnation. I don't think they ever formally renounced those old teachings, or, obviously, even took them out of the prayer book. But they certainly weren't a part of the practice of my church.

Drop by St. Thomas in NYC some time, they still preach it.

But they do have a lovely boy choir.

[_beastie]

beastie,

Thanks for writing this post. I have had very similar thoughts recently, and I thought about writing something up, but since I pretty much agree with everything you have said, now I don't have to bother.

I do have one question for you. At what level do you think this decision has been made?

I ask because I don't think this decision has been made at the highest levels. Both sides seem to have their supporters in the Qof12 and both sides seem to be able to play "dueling General Authorities" at will. This leads me to believe that at the level of official leadership there is a standoff. The only thing that could break that deadlock would be Thomas Monson stepping forward and taking a side, but I seriously doubt he knows or cares about this whole situation. Plus I have never heard Monson's name brought up as a power player in any of these episodes involving FARMS.

So since there isn't any definitive official leadership, NAMIRS has won and classic FARMS has lost largely on the basis of some control of bureaucracy/correlation at the Church Office Building(COB). In other words, staffers, managers, and bureaucrats have tipped the scales in the direction of mainstream.

The reason I find this fascinating, if true, is that this is a signal that the official leadership is no longer controlling or leading the church. Either through deadlock, neglect, or just not caring, the decisions are now being made at some undefined level at the COB and BYU. The crown jewel of Mormonism, that it is lead by living prophets and apostles, may very well be dead as shown by this episode.

Interesting. If you are correct, and you may be, I wonder if the PR firm is involved.

[_beastie]

Drop by St. Thomas in NYC some time, they still preach it.

But they do have a lovely boy choir.

lol

Yeah, Episcopal churches vary a lot in what they preach, depending on the congregation and priest. Mine was very liberal.

[_MCB]

lol

Yeah, Episcopal churches vary a lot in what they preach, depending on the congregation and priest. Mine was very liberal.

His brand of Episcopalianism may be liberal in some respects, but at least it denies an apostasy.

[_Garbo]

For years I've thought that the LDS church is facing a crossroads due to the increased information available on the internet. They could either choose to retrench and purge (a choice they made post-Arrington) or become more tolerant of divergent views and deliberately choose NOT to purge. This is not an easy decision for any religion to make, because each choice has its own cost/benefit ratio. Retrenching and purging has the benefit of having a highly loyal and devoted group of followers, and strong-arm religions will always appeal to certain people who feel comfortable with authority, obedience, and loyalty, so it may not hurt their numbers in the end, even after the purging. However, they will remain viewed as a fringe religion, with cult-like traits (see: Scientology). Becoming more tolerant and not purging divergent voices has the benefit of allowing the church to be seen as acceptably mainstream, but the cost is that the religion becomes a bit diluted and less appealing to those who prefer the strong-arm (ironically, when other religions have chosen this route, their numbers have tended to decline: see Catholicism). The greatest benefit of this road is that the mainstreaming of the religion opens doors to power, and Romney's nomination has allowed the brethren to see the real potential in this road. That's why I think that this apologetic event, although of interest to few, is actually an important sign that they've chose which road to travel. Mainstream.

That's why DCP and his ilk are out. They are part of the retrench and purge movement. For heaven's sake, some of them have even expressed the fervent desire to identify and weed out the wolves in sheep's clothing, and have even imagined they have the gift and right to do so. This could not be a more clear expression of retrench and purge.

But that's not the road the brethren have chosen. They've chosen Mitt Romney and the future Romneys. They've chosen mainstream power rather than ideological purity. They don't want any danites in their midst any more, no matter how useful they were in the past.

The old-school apologists are just going to have to go through a grieving period as they realize they are expendable to the church.

One of the best posts I've read about this whole affair. Kudos.

[_beastie]

Many thanks, garbo!

[_Called2Swerve]

This is why I said that mainstreaming does come with a cost. Once the "one true" part is a little less clear due to these issues and the church tolerating some divergent views of said issues, then people do tend to become less committed.

Next thing you know, they will be letting your standard issue Gentile into the temple to attend temple sealings. But it will start with small wedding chapels being built outside of every LDS temple for a civil ceremony followed by the couple entering into the temple to get sealed. This would be great progress for the church, but they can still call it revelation.