Lest Ye Celebrate Too Heartily....

[Guest]

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[_harmony]

Yeah, they accept no blame and refuse to acknowledge or apologize for mistakes they have made; Much like the Church at the moment.

This has been getting more and more noticible in recent years. The ability to acknowledge a mistake is the first step to repentence. Being told repeatedly by friend AND foe yet still refusing to acknowledge that a (or several) mistake might have been made is a symptom of overwhelming pride. And pride goeth before a fall. Repentence depends on acknowledging mistakes; I'm not sure any of this Merry Band of Men can dig deep enough to find the necessary humility.

We can only hope that one day they will recognize that taking responsibility and admitting you were wrong aren't a weakness, but show a willingness to walk the walk instead of being all talk. DCP blowing up is what brought this upon himself, nobody had to fire him he did that to himself over a relatively minor change in direction.

Yes, well... when you think you're always right, you tend to develop ego and pride, not humility.

You really might be onto something there with the cult mentality of the mopologists. The way that they have acted with DCP not only shows that he has his own cult of personality, but that for many of them their loyalty to him Trump's their loyalty to the leaders or even the Church itself.

I've wondered about this. Who is more culpable... the leaders in this cult of personality, or the followers who put their loyalty to the leader ahead of the their loyalty to the church?

Maybe this campaign against John Dehlin isn't about him per se, but about Dan not liking someone having a following that is bigger than his own and more acceptable to a number of real LDS scholars.

I think that's a little too petty, even for Dan's ego.

[Guest]

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[_Kishkumen]

I agree, but it must really rub him up the wrong way that Dehlin is so popular and especially with his target market; the LDS Scholars like Bushman and Givens. If the rumors of GA involvement are true then I'd imagine that DCP really has it in for him. The idea that someone who openly acknowledges not believing in the LDS truth claims could receive so much support while he is being rejected must be hard for his ego to take.

Thanks,

Hasa Diga Eebowai

As much as I like John, I think it would be a mistake to think that he is completely faultless in this course of events. While it is true that he has invited apologists onto his podcast to speak their minds, it has long been clear to me that, like many other NOMs, John has not thought much of the job apologists have done in defending Mormonism. He has said things that have been rather denigrating and provocative, in fact. That they finally got around to striking back in a more organized way is not surprising.

The thing is, LDS apologists have provoked a lot of negative reactions from people all across the spectrum of belief and activity. You can make mistakes and come up short, but when you give too many people reasons not to like you, then you are headed for trouble. The apologists have been rather dismissive of such considerations, since they always trusted that the righteousness of their cause and their apparent support from highly placed leaders would insulate them from the cost of such bad feelings. And, they rather gloried in the "persecution," which they saw as Satan's opposition to their good work, instead of people just disliking them for behaving like assholes.

Although I hate to indulge in a grandiose comparison in the fashion of DCP, I am reminded of the fall of the Knights Templar. Here you had a special brotherhood which had stood on the front battle lines of the Crusades. Eventually, however, times changed, negative feelings about the Knights built up, and one day they were extirpated, perhaps as much for practical reasons as anything else (the money Philip IV owed them?). The parallel isn't exact, but I think it shows how vulnerable everyone is to the vagaries of politics, jealousy, dislike, and even their own success.

What surprises me most of all, however, is that the Old Guard didn't see the writing on the wall as soon as the FARMS Board was dissolved. If there was any clear warning of the inevitable end, that was it.

[_harmony]

What surprises me most of all, however, is that the Old Guard didn't see the writing on the wall as soon as the FARMS Board was dissolved. If there was any clear warning of the inevitable end, that was it.

One must first believe in one's own vulnerability. None of the Merry Men believe in their own vulnerability.

One must realize that one doesn't know everything. None of the Merry men have this realization readily apparent. Being deliberately blind to one's own faults and deficiencies tends to leave one vulnerable to inevitability.

[_Chap]

Although I hate to indulge in a grandiose comparison in the fashion of DCP, I am reminded of the fall of the Knights Templar. Here you had a special brotherhood which had stood on the front battle lines of the Crusades. Eventually, however, times changed, negative feelings about the Knights built up, and one day they were extirpated, perhaps as much for practical reasons as anything else (the money Philip IV owed them?). The parallel isn't exact, but I think it shows how vulnerable everyone is to the vagaries of politics, jealousy, dislike, and even their own success.

Hmm ... the Templars, eh?

Well this is how Jacques de Molay, Grand Master of the order, ended up in 1314:



Is there a suitable site for a replay somewhere near Temple Square? That guy with the beard looks familiar.

by the way, there is a Freemason/Templar (and hence Mormon/Templar) link herethat may comfort anybody who ends up suffering a similar fate:

Some 400 years after the death of de Molay and the dissolution of the Knights Templar, the fraternal order of Freemasonry began to emerge in northern Europe. The Masons developed an elaborate mythos about their Order, and some claimed heritage from entities in history,[35] ranging from the mystique of the Templars to the builders of Solomon's Temple. The story of de Molay's brave defiance of his inquisitors has been incorporated in various forms into Masonic lore. One modern youth group sponsored by Freemasonry is even named after the Grand Master, DeMolay International.[36] The stories of the Templars' secret initiation ceremonies also proved a tempting source for Masonic writers who were creating new works of pseudohistory. As described by modern historian Malcolm Barber in The New Knighthood: "It was during the 1760s that German masons introduced a specific Templar connection, claiming that the Order, through its occupation of the Temple of Solomon, had been the repository of secret wisdom and magical powers, which James of Molay had handed down to his successor before his execution and of which the eighteenth-century Freemasons were the direct heirs."

[_Darth J]

Gerald Bradford gives the order to remove the staff of the Mormon Studies Review

[_Yoda]

Gerald Bradford gives the order to remove the staff of the Mormon Studies Review

Awesome!!!

From on Star Wars fan to another...

May the Force be with you!

And....for BC...

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/82 ... -82957.jpg