modesty conundrum

[_SteelHead]

In Mormon theology especially in light of what is taught in the temple:

Adam and Eve as created and dwelling in the garden were both; naked without shame, and in the presence of god in the previously described condition.

It was Satan that taught them to be ashamed of their nudity.

How is any teaching about modesty then, not the perpetuation of the teachings of Satan?

[_zeezrom]

Satan causes us to lust. Lust causes shame?

[_palerobber]

i think the point of the story is that Satan gave them knowledge. adam and eve's shame was inherent but dormant due to their ignorance.

so by extension it's the acquisition of knowledge that should be considered devilish, not modesty.

[_DarkHelmet]

i think the point of the story is that Satan gave them knowledge. adam and eve's shame was inherent but dormant due to their ignorance.

so by extension it's the acquisition of knowledge that should be considered devilish, not modesty.

But God should have smote them down for being naked in front of him. That would be like walking into the temple naked. Incredibly blasphemous.

[_DrW]

i think the point of the story is that Satan gave them knowledge. adam and eve's shame was inherent but dormant due to their ignorance.

so by extension it's the acquisition of knowledge that should be considered devilish, not modesty.

Great point.

And that is pretty much where things stand with many religions now, is it not?

Many in Islam are getting around this growing problem by teaching that much of modern scientific knowledge is in the Koran, if folks only understood where to look for it. I work with several people who really believe this. While they are quite disturbed that a scientist would disagree with them regarding such a claim, they are unwilling to pursue the matter and find out why.

[Guest]

God never taught nor commanded them to not be naked in his presence, in fact we read that they were naked and not ashamed.

Can we assume that the inherent state of celestial beings is naked? If so why did Moroni wear robes?

Also, as their eyes were opened, why did they accept Satan's teaching? How did they not realize they had spent all of their time in the garden naked with deity? idicating that such a state was perfectly acceptable to god.

As no unclean thing can enter unto the presence of god, naked must be acceptable. I still assert that teachings regarding modesty are the perpetuation of Satan's teachings.

The logic holes and contradictions start early in the scriptures.

[_Infymus]

In the Garden of Eden sat Adam,
Massaging the bust of his madam,
He chuckled with mirth,
For he knew that on earth,
There were only two boobs and he had 'em.

[_zeezrom]

We are currently grappling with this issue in our home as we begin to raise children outside the confines of the church. It is still up in the air as to whether we raise them in, quasi in, or out. Let's assume we continue to raise them out of the church.

Our children are beginning to make their own choices about what they wear. Their parents were both raised in very conservative, Mormon families. We grew up with all the teachings of modesty.

How should we approach it now?

This is a rhetorical question. I really am not searching for advice here but rather posing the question in support of continued discussion on this thread.

[_SteelHead]

Modesty is a cultural construct, but teaching girls that certain types of clothing makes them walking porn moves the onus of responsibility to the wrong person. It it the viewer and not the viewed who is responsible.

Modesty is a reflection of what is sexualized in a culture. In cultures where nudity is common then nudity is not as sexualized and no one gets bent out of shape about bare breasts, much less bare shoulders.

in my opinion an over emphasis on conservative modesty reflects more on those defining what is modest, than those who fail to meet the conventions.

Some people expressly dress provocaticely. It is advertising. We are sexual creatures and send signals. And yet sometimes a person does not intend to dress provocatively, but is viewed so by certain viewers.

But a culture that blames rape victims for being raped on their provocative dress is a sick culture moving the onus of responsibility to the wrong person.

It is a complex topic..... But Satan is its original author ;) as god made you to ne naked and not ashamed.

[_Tarski]

In Mormon theology especially in light of what is taught in the temple:

Adam and Eve as created and dwelling in the garden were both; naked without shame, and in the presence of god in the previously described condition.

It was Satan that taught them to be ashamed of their nudity.

How is any teaching about modesty then, not the perpetuation of the teachings of Satan?

Are we talking about the kind of shame one feels when one doesn't feel attractive naked or are we talking about shame associated with sexual taboo?

If the latter then maybe Satan did us a favor. For something to be exciting, there must be tension, risk and crossing of boundaries at least in thought.
Maybe Satan just added in what was needed to make sex have that extra psychosocial punch. Or was it God with his restrictions that did that for us?