An amazing re-discovery

[_lulu]

Joseph and Oliver take a break from translating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N20h3cSh7gM

[_Madison54]

Dan Vogel just pointed out to me that this may be the only record we have of Cowdery saying he saw the plates and an angel.

I agree that this is a remarkable find!

What do you think about how it varies some from the familiar version? (This is also mentioned in one of the footnotes.)

Were they far from any inhabitants in a remote field or in the woods a short distance from the Whitmer home? (Lucy also claims to have been in the Whitmer home when they left and when they returned.)

Do you think they changed the location in the later more official version?

Quote from Cowdery's letter above:

It was a clear, open beautiful day, far from any inhabitants, in a remote field, at the time we saw the record, of which it has been spoken, brought and laid before us, by an angel, arrayed in glorious light, [who] ascend [descended I suppose] out of the midst of heaven.

Common version:

In late June or early July 1829, Joseph Smith Jr., Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris retired to the woods a short distance from the home of Peter Whitmer Sr. and prayed to receive a vision of the Golden Plates.[2] After some time, Harris left the other three men, believing his presence had prevented the vision from occurring. The remaining three again knelt and soon saw a light in the air over their heads and an angel holding the plates in his hands.

[_Joe Geisner]

Mike Marquardt has organized the Blatchly material in a nice pdf format. This includes his reconstruction of the Cowdery letter. It is in the middle of the page. He did a great job, enjoy.

http://user.xmission.com/~research/central/scrip.htm

Thanks California Kid for the excellent comment on juggling. Much better than what I wrote. Thank you for the clarity.

[_Mortal Man]

"Juggling" in this context means sleight-of-hand. (E.g., the classic "shell game.") Joseph Smith had a reputation as a juggler, and Dan Vogel has suggested that "juggling" was involved in the episode with the "feather" that he and some other money-diggers "discovered" several feet underground. Since the feather would have quickly decomposed if it had really been buried down there, it must have been planted by Joseph after the hole was dug.

Yeah, but what about the pin in the pile of shavings?

[_Joe Geisner]

I was telling someone the other day that apologist are going to see Erin's discovery as an affirmation that the witnesses story is confirmed; all the questions have been answered. Well, it looks like Danno has jumped on board! Or is that jumping the shark?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterso ... imony.html

My guess is, Dan is incapable of looking at a document or historical event honestly. And Mike Parker, in the comment section is equally myopic!

[_Dan Vogel]

I was telling someone the other day that apologist are going to see Erin's discovery as an affirmation that the witnesses story is confirmed; all the questions have been answered. Well, it looks like Danno has jumped on board! Or is that jumping the shark?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterso ... imony.html

My guess is, Dan is incapable of looking at a document or historical event honestly. And Mike Parker, in the comment section is equally myopic!

Hi Joe!
I responded to Peterson's post on Facebook as follows:

Dan, this is not only the earliest but the only account of which I am aware where Cowdery discusses the angel and plates. However, no one expects Cowdery to admit he could have been deceived. The idea that hallucinations can’t occur on a “clear, open beautiful day” is mistaken, of course. The test for whether Cowdery saw a real angel or an imagined one is the Book of Mormon historicity. That is more easily tested. If it is concluded that the Book of Mormon is non-historical, then there were no Nephites and no Nephites to make plates--ergo the witnesses hallucinated.

[_Dan Vogel]

"Juggling" in this context means sleight-of-hand. (E.g., the classic "shell game.") Joseph Smith had a reputation as a juggler, and Dan Vogel has suggested that "juggling" was involved in the episode with the "feather" that he and some other money-diggers "discovered" several feet underground. Since the feather would have quickly decomposed if it had really been buried down there, it must have been planted by Joseph after the hole was dug.

Depending on how long it was said to have been buried. Rather, the point of the feather is to counter claims that Joseph Smith was an unconscious fraud. The finding of the feather proves either that he was real or a fake seer. Depending on how long it was said to have been buried. Rather, the point of the feather is to counter claims that Joseph Smith was an unconscious fraud. The finding of the feather proves either that he was real or a fake seer. Despite the tendency of some postmodernists to manipulate reality in favor of all faith claims, Joseph Smith’s attempt to provide evidence for his claims moved them from mere psychological states to the material-external-testable world.

[_Dan Vogel]

"Juggling" in this context means sleight-of-hand. (E.g., the classic "shell game.") Joseph Smith had a reputation as a juggler, and Dan Vogel has suggested that "juggling" was involved in the episode with the "feather" that he and some other money-diggers "discovered" several feet underground. Since the feather would have quickly decomposed if it had really been buried down there, it must have been planted by Joseph after the hole was dug.

Yeah, but what about the pin in the pile of shavings?

The story of Harris dropping his tie pin and Joseph Smith finding it is told from the point of view of Harris, who was either a witness to a real demonstration of seeric gift or was fooled. If fooled, one can’t expect an accurate account from him, especially more than 30 years after the event. So, it is difficult to place much weight on the story. On the other hand, the story of the feather is given in the 1826 trial record—very close to the time it occurred—and is true despite Josiah Stowell’s state of mind.

My guess with the pin story is that Joseph Smith saw where it had fallen or found it in the initial search and only pretended to find it with the seer stone. This would be one of those situational psychic demonstrations where the psychic takes advantage an event that happens to unfold to their advantage.

[_Joe Geisner]

Hi Joe!
I responded to Peterson's post on Facebook as follows:

Dan, this is not only the earliest but the only account of which I am aware where Cowdery discusses the angel and plates. However, no one expects Cowdery to admit he could have been deceived. The idea that hallucinations can’t occur on a “clear, open beautiful day” is mistaken, of course. The test for whether Cowdery saw a real angel or an imagined one is the Book of Mormon historicity. That is more easily tested. If it is concluded that the Book of Mormon is non-historical, then there were no Nephites and no Nephites to make plates--ergo the witnesses hallucinated.

Great response Dan. I can just hear Dan squealing!

It seems Dan and Parker are not the only apologist jumping on this band wagon with their nonsense!

http://www.millennialstar.org/new-disco ... of-mormon/

If they could only see the forest for the trees. How they can be caught up in the nonsense they propagate and not see what an amazing find Erin has provided the Mormon community, with this discovery, is truly a shame. What she has done is so amazing, and these apologist are completely clueless.