The Kate Kelly Excommunication Thread

[_Cinnamon Bear Head]

If they were gonna ex her, they would have done it. I call dis-fellowship.

[Guest]

From KSL:

"He and the council have given intense and prayerful consideration regarding her membership status. He has made a thorough review of her response and other materials, and wishes to prayerfully consider the matter overnight. He will notify her of a decision, probably tomorrow," said LDS Church spokeswoman Laurie Turner, who was on site in Virginia.

"On site in Virginia."

All this press conference/PR horsecrap makes me think that the second coming will be predicated by a damn news conference.

[_beanboots]

From the Deseret News:

Decision pending for activist in conflict with LDS Church

SALT LAKE CITY - Faith, doctrine and how questions are raised by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are all part of a mainstream and social media conversation that culminated in vigils in Salt Lake City and Virginia Sunday.

The vigils were in support of a woman facing a church disciplinary council for actions related to seeking the ordination of women to the faith’s priesthood, and was timed to take place while the council was in session.

Kate Kelly, who describes herself as a faithful, believing member of the faith, is refusing counsel from her local priesthood leaders to cease her now one-year effort to recruit support and followers to her effort to Ordain Women, the name given to her movement and website.

The local church officials charged with both strengthening church members and protecting the faith were trying to determine if her actions constitute apostasy — acting in opposition to the church and its leaders — and asked Kelly to attend or otherwise participate in the disciplinary council in Virginia, her former home.

Kelly choose not to attend the disciplinary council and was instead in Salt Lake City Sunday with about 300 to 350 people at a vigil held outside the LDS Church Office Building and at a nearby park. Kelly's bishop emailed her at about 8:40 p.m. noting the decision would not come Sunday night.

"He and the council have given intense and prayerful consideration regarding her membership status. He has made a thorough review of her response and other materials, and wishes to prayerfully consider the matter overnight. He will notify her of a decision, probably tomorrow," said LDS Church spokeswoman Laurie Turner, who was on site in Virginia.

Sunday vigil

Kelly, who was placed on informal church probation in May, said she recently moved from Virginia to Provo and could not attend. But she sent a four-page defense of her actions to the bishopric, and in media interviews during the past two weeks repeatedly said she needed to be true to her "authentic self."

Ally Isom, spokeswoman for the church in Salt Lake City, issued a statement Sunday night:

"Tonight, our prayers are with those who have to decide these difficult personal matters. We also pray for those whose choices may place them outside our congregation," she said.

"In the Church, we want everyone to feel welcome, safe and valued, and of course, there is room to ask questions. But how we ask is just as important as what we ask. We should not try to dictate to God what is right for His Church."

In Kelly's letter to the Vienna Ward bishopric of the Oakton Stake, publicly posted on the Ordain Women website, she asks not to be desciplined and recounts her time in the church, including her baptism, time at BYU, and as an LDS missionary in Spain. Where she appears to part ways with the church is in its teachings of equal, yet uniquely divine roles for men and women.

"I will not stop speaking out publicly on the issue of gender inequality in the church," she wrote the bishopric.

In an interview with the Deseret News last week, she was equally emphatic about her desire to continue her movement:

"I told (my bishop and stake president) point blank in person, 'I am not going to take down the website and I'm not going to disassociate myself from the group and those are not negotiable,'" she said.

Kelly said church services were "bittersweet" for her Sunday. She said she enjoyed participating in the music and service but was sad thinking it might be her last week as a member, which she described as "very sobering."

Vigil supporters

The Ordain Women website this past week encouraged supporters to write letters in support of Kelly, listing dozens of entries, and provided instructions for silent vigils to be held Sunday at the proscribed time of the disciplinary hearing in Oakton, Virginia.

Those gathered at the vigil took turns stating their name and why they refused to remain silent.

A pile of handkerchiefs, pictures of supporters and their families and a binder full of letters on Kelly's behalf were place outside the South doors of the Church Office Building during the vigil. The letters were collected by the group to deliver to the church during regular business hours and the handkerchiefs will be made into a quilt, organizers said.

About a third of those originally gathered met again at the park, where members of the leadership in Ordain Women read the names of women in LDS Church and biblical history along with a summary of their accomplishments. After each name the crowd repeated "May your memory move us forward."

Kelly was joined by John Dehlin at the vigil Sunday. Dehlin, of Logan, runs a website called Mormon Stories and has written that he has "serious doubts about, or no longer believe many of the fundamental LDS church truth claims..." He said he was at the rally to support Kelly.

"I think there is dialogue now. I think it will continue. I think sometimes some people have to get out in front to create space behind for others to have dialogue. It may be the church isn't comfortable dialoguing with Kate, but I think Kate has created space for them to dialogue with other, more moderate voices," Dehlin said.

Others see Kelly's actions in a different light:

"I think there are a lot of possibilities for women in the Church that can be explored. But I don’t believe OW’s approach is faithful to scriptures or prophetic counsel," wrote Katherine Morris, an LDS member who writes the "Sacred Quotidian" blog. "And, more tellingly, I don’t think their approach is even consistent with their proposed aims (i.e. they’re undermining the authority they’re asking to be a part of)," she said.

[_Jonah]

"After having given intense and careful consideration this evening to your membership status, and after carefully reviewing the materials you sent to us, we have decided that we want to prayerfully consider this matter overnight," Kelly quoted her bishop as telling her by email. "I will notify you once we have a final decision, probably tomorrow [Monday] or Tuesday."

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58099754-78/kelly-church-women-font.html.csp

So....church leaders can pray about whether or not to ex Kate Kelly, but won't pray about whether or not to ordain women?? Gotcha.

[_Bazooka]

Have you noticed that, all of sudden, all church spokespeople are now women?

[_Mayan Elephant]

i have to agree that there was some motivation for delaying the answer and maybe getting a handle on the PR could be part of that. i have witnessed an embarrassing number of courts, and i have never ever ever seen anything where the decision is delayed. not saying this is unprecedented, but there were procedures that were very consistent in the courts i sat on. after the hearing portion of the court, the subject of the court left the room, everyone on the council spoke. a decision was presented. a prayer was said right then. a small amount of discussion may have followed after the prayer. then the person was brought back into the room to get the decision. there was, even in the heinous circumstances, an attempt at some dignity and respect.

[_Bazooka]

Perhaps this is bigger than we think.

The Salt Lake City vigil — one of dozens taking place in more than 50 U.S. cities and 17 countries — began at City Creek Park, where supporters listened to speeches from Ordain Women leaders and others for nearly an hour.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58099 ... s.html.csp

Is President Newsroom is starting to realise he is in the process of excommunicating a lot more than just one uppity woman?

The throng then marched across the street to the LDS Church Office Building, where participants took turns walking up to the high-rise’s revolving doors on the south side, laying down a handkerchief and repeating the phrase, "I will not be silenced," followed by their own thoughts.

"I will not be silenced because it’s not in my divine nature to be silent," said one woman.

"I will not be silenced because you fear my voice," said another.

"I will not be silenced because my daughter, Kate Kelly, is a renaissance daughter of the restoration, has committed no sin and has done nothing wrong," said Jim Kelly before dropping a handkerchief into the pile.

Many made their statements and then hugged Kelly.

Her husband, Neil Ransom, walked with his wife at the front of the crowd and laid down a photograph from their wedding day.

Kelly placed a copy of her Salt Lake County marriage certificate, an emblem, she said, of what she stood to lose.

When you think about, the Church has painted itself into a corner. If the excommunication happens (how can it not?) then it disenfranchises a lot of members, and not just those involved with Ordain Women. If it prevaricates and goes for a lesser punishment, it will offer encouragement for both the Ordain Women's movement to continue their lobbying and for any other movement that wishes to agitate for change e.g Same-Sex marriage advocates.

[_Bazooka]

Please use this space to post relevant material regarding the potential excommunication of Kate Kelly. The hearing began 45 minutes ago.

Here is a link to the brief that was submitted: http://ordainwomen.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Brief-Submitted-by-Nadine-Hansen-in-Defense-of-Kate-Kelly.pdf

I think that brief is exactly why Church Leaders do not want to advance with female ordination, the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12 Apostles would get totally owned!

[_zeezrom]

i hear your rant, ceeboo. but it is a narrative and not based on the facts. sure, a woman railroaded by men while just trying to do the right is a sad sad thing. but this ain't that. and any shock that this is happening, is feigned. the shock and surprise is just her part of the campaign. if she is really surprised by this, she is delusional.

Oh brother. She is first to push this far. If everyone had your view, this world would never change.

[_moksha]

the 2nd counselor is employed full time by the Corporation of the First Presidency, and is the public affairs director in the nations capital.

Interesting twist to his job, when his own actions will be the talk of future press dealings. Press people just love the word misogyny, not because it is hard to spell, but because it rhymes with polygamy.