So long Boy Scouts

[_candygal]

And so long, Girl Scouts.

As someone who invested 18 years of her life in the Girl Scouts (combined girl and adult member years) this is incredibly disappointing and sad. I started going to Girl Scout meetings before I was old enough to join. It was a family tradition. I was Leaders Kid. Years later, I became a leader of two troops myself.

There was a reason that Baden-Powell formed the Girl Guides back in the 1900's and handed it off to his sister. There was a reason that Daisy Low brought the movement to Savannah.

And none of it had to do with mixed scouting experiences.

I don't know how BSA is planning to handle this. I don't know what GSUSA might do in response, if it will modify it's program or how. If GSUSA program needs changing, then it should have seen this coming and done it already.

I can't help but wonder what Juliette Gordon "Daisy" Low would think of this. I bet she would think that GSUSA had it's head so far up it's political butt that it failed to remain fully responsive to the preferences of girl members. And I further bet, that she would say so and not mince words.

Back in March of 1912, she made her historical announcement.

"I've got something for the girls of Savannah, and all America, and all the world, and we're going to start it tonight."

All of the Investiture ceremonies that I conducted began with that piece of history.

And start it she did. She started with 18 girls, the White Rose Patrol of Savannah, Georgia.

All of the Investiture ceremonies that I conducted included 18 white roses, to commemorate that piece of history, too.

And a traditional Girl Scout flag ceremony. Salute, and "rock back".

I wanted my girls to know that they were taking part in making American history. That they themselves were a part of American history. My troops were steeped in tradition and the girls were so proud to be part of their movement.

And now it seems that apparently somebody didn't keep their Promise.

GSUSA has failed to be everything it was ever intended to be when Daisy Low's life was turned around by an idea that she brought back home with her.

I never in my life imagined I would ever write a commentary like this.

On my honor.

:-(

Because I didn't have Girl Scouts convenient around me..(far from County Seat)...all I had was 4H. So I find your comments very interesting because I had not put myself in the shoes of those young girls and their program. Hopefully there are still choices...but in the LDS church..nay...there is not..they will conform and combine.

[_Xenophon]

Looks like the BSA has other problems. https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos ... story.html

I think the financial worries will just continue to compound too. As stated above I believe this change is a long time coming for the LDS church and isn't specifically tied to the changes in inclusion but last I remember LDS scouts accounted for upwards of 15% of membership to the BSA (This was prior to the 14-17 y/o change so it may be lower). That represents a significant hit to the kinda pyramidy business model that the BSA employs. Heaven help the BSA if other churches decide to bail too, I'd have to look it up but I believe their is a large Muslim body of scouts as well.

by the way if that 15% seems high you have to consider how the church approaches dues and enrollment compared to the average troop. Because it is the youth program and the church itself is footing the dues bill there are a fair bit more "inactive" men on the roles than you would expect. Serving as clerk and YM Pres I saw us pay up for a bunch of boys that would never set foot on a camp out or merit badge class. From a financial perspective, dropping the BSA is a no-brainer.

[_Fence Sitter]

I think the financial worries will just continue to compound too. As stated above I believe this change is a long time coming for the LDS church and isn't specifically tied to the changes in inclusion but last I remember LDS scouts accounted for upwards of 15% of membership to the BSA (This was prior to the 14-17 y/o change so it may be lower). That represents a significant hit to the kinda pyramidy business model that the BSA employs. Heaven help the BSA if other churches decide to bail too, I'd have to look it up but I believe their is a large Muslim body of scouts as well.

by the way if that 15% seems high you have to consider how the church approaches dues and enrollment compared to the average troop. Because it is the youth program and the church itself is footing the dues bill there are a fair bit more "inactive" men on the roles than you would expect. Serving as clerk and YM Pres I saw us pay up for a bunch of boys that would never set foot on a camp out or merit badge class. From a financial perspective, dropping the BSA is a no-brainer.

Being the cynic I am, I agree that this may be driven by finances, and is another indication that the church cares more about the bottom line than it does members. The reality is that if the church really is looking to do everything it can to keep young males in the church they should bite the bullet and continue to foot the bill. In the overall scope of what that would cost the church, it is a drop in the bucket.

I think that what we are seeing over the last 20 years is the church making a lot of moves trying to do anything to maintain growth and increase retention. Nothing is working. Right now, this move with Scouting is probably being driven by the erroneous thinking that the church needs some sort of correlated youth program that applies to youth throughout the world and that program needs to better address programs for girls than it did in the past. They are looking for a one-size-fits-all program that will swoop in and reanimate the youth to activity and belief.

You would think they might of learned their lesson with the failures of correlation, not try and make the same mistake all over again.

[_Xenophon]

Being the cynic I am, I agree that this may be driven by finances, and is another indication that the church cares more about the bottom line than it does members. The reality is that if the church really is looking to do everything it can to keep young males in the church they should bite the bullet and continue to foot the bill. In the overall scope of what that would cost the church, it is a drop in the bucket.

I think that what we are seeing over the last 20 years is the church making a lot of moves trying to do anything to maintain growth and increase retention. Nothing is working. Right now, this move with Scouting is probably being driven by the erroneous thinking that the church needs some sort of correlated youth program that applies to youth throughout the world and that program needs to better address programs for girls than it did in the past. They are looking for a one-size-fits-all program that will swoop in and reanimate the youth to activity and belief.

You would think they might of learned their lesson with the failures of correlation, not try and make the same mistake all over again.

Good thoughts. I may have been unclear in that I don't think finances are why the LDS church made this change, just an added plus to the decision.

I think you get to the real crux of the issue with retention. It is no secret that the BSA just isn't as relevant as it once was, their numbers are declining too. I suspect the church believes they will be able to create a program that has better engagement and fits into their beliefs a little more neatly... I won't hold my breath on that. The problem is they are fighting a trend that is happening everywhere, kids rejecting the beliefs of their parents, and there are no good solutions. The problem isn't that churches aren't engaging the youth in a meaningful way, it is that they aren't buying what is being sold. I'm not sure how packaging it better will ever improve the situation when what is in the package is really at fault.

[Jersey Girl]

The LDS dilemma of what to do in place of the Boy Scouts can easily be corrected by allocating 80% of the funding to the boy's program and 20% to the girl's program. Activities could be similar to before, only this time with an even greater emphasis on obedience to Church Authority.

[_Shulem]

It's clear to me that the church is run by the guidance and direction of lawyers whose client is the Corporation of the church. Legal counsel got the church out of Boy Scouts to mitigate threats and lawsuits from LGBT forces that would otherwise undermine the church and sue for unspecified damages. The church is under the clutches of lawyers and legal counsel. It has nowhere else to go. It has run its course and will continue to erode -- be nothing but the boring institution it already is. Nothing exciting about Mormonism is in the making. No prophecies. No Jackson County Missouri. No Second coming. It's over.

The church will suffer continuing losses defending the plagiarism of the Book of Mormon. The church will continue to be nuked by the Book of Abraham. The old doctrines and policies of polygamy and blacks and the priesthood will haunt the cult and erode the foundations of this American based white religion which will never embrace diversity and culture which is what is required to survive in today's world.

Message from the First Presidency

[_Shulem]

Mormon kids need to pursue their own interests doing things that bring them happiness and personal satisfaction. New Mormon youth programs will prove nothing more than mind control and a means to the end -- secure obedience and tithes. The time has come for Mormon youth to break free and become the people they want to be and do the things they want to do. It's time that bishops no longer ask boys if they masturbate. Every boy deserves to grow up without being hassled and guilt tripped by the clergy.

[_selek]

For the most part, I'm a bit sad about what is happening to the BSA and how the relationship is ending with the Mormon church.

My Boy Scout experience was very positive. I have numerous fond memories and lessons that I learned while in the BSA. Aside from my first year, I joined a troop that was not affiliated with a Mormon ward, since our ward didn't have enough boys to form a troop. Perhaps that was part of the difference for me.

Either way, I believe boys need time to be boys, and girls need time to be girls. Boys and girls act differently in the presence of each other, and they need time apart to grow and learn in different ways. I also believe they need time together, too, but that is not what the BSA is about.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

My wife and I were traipsing along Pen-Mar park:



and we just so happened upon a big Scouting picnic. There just so happened to be a girl Boy Scout with her little uniform on. She had a denim skirt instead of jeans. There were families, a priest, and hot dogs. It was about as Americana as you can get.

We moved on, and the world didn't come to an end (surprisingly). The LDS church is way off base on this one.

- Doc

[_DarkHelmet]

I always thought it was weird that the LDS church was so heavily involved in boy scouts. I hated scouting, and I really, really hated being called to serve in scouting as an adult. I have nothing against scouting, and I think I tried my best to serve the boys, but I pretty much sucked at it because I had zero interest in it. I think scouting serves a good purpose and teaches good skills to those boys who pursue it. But I hated how the church made it mandatory, and we were made to believe it was part of the gospel plan. I think this is a positive move, and I hope LDS boys who do enjoy scouting continue to pursue it outside of the church.