Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

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_I have a question
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Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _I have a question »

In last weekend’s General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, First Presidency member Dallin Oaks sounded an alarm about single Mormons delaying marriage and childbearing:

Children are our most precious gift from God—our eternal increase. Yet we live in a time when many women wish to have no part in the bearing and nurturing of children. Many young adults delay marriage until temporal needs are satisfied. The average age of our Church members’ marriages has increased by more than two years, and the number of births to Church members is falling.

Some of the 2016 Next Mormons Survey (NMS) results confirmed what President Oaks observed, particularly on Mormons’ declining birth rate. (As one social scientist put it upon seeing the stats on Mormons’ shrinking family size, “four is the new six, and two is the new four.”)

Most Mormons who marry do so early, at least by today’s standards—in their early 20s. But the NMS showed a clear drop in the percentage of Mormons who get married while still in their teens, as Oaks himself did. He and his first wife June were both just nineteen when they wed in 1952. They were not cultural outliers in getting married so young, since the median age at first marriage nationally for American men in the early 1950s was about 22, and for women about 20. The young Oakses were largely in step with what non-Mormon Americans were doing all around them back in the day.

Adolescent marriage is more rare in America now. Only 18 out of 1,000 young adults in the United States ages 18 and 19 are married, according to the Census Bureau. That’s less than 2%.

In the LDS community it’s higher, but falling. In the NMS, a quarter of Mormon respondents over age 52 were married by age 19, compared to just 13 percent of Millennials. That means that adolescent marriage has been cut nearly in half among Mormons.

We might think that is cause for celebration, particularly because early marriage is correlated with higher divorce rates and future poverty. The combination of social immaturity and being uneducated and on the edge financially can take a toll.

In fact, divorce is down in America as a whole. To the long list of institutions and products that Baby Boomers and their elders accuse Millennials of destroying—the automobile industry! the diamond business! chain restaurants!—we might add divorce, which dropped by 18% from 2008 to 2016. The trend is largely driven by young adults who are waiting longer to get married, when they have finished their educations and are more financially secure.

https://religionnews.com/2018/10/10/in- ... e-mormons/

But President Oaks was not exactly focusing on the positive in Saturday’s talk. In it, he suggested that young adults who delay marriage do so not because they are intentional about making the right choice and avoiding outcomes like divorce, but because they are selfishly waiting “until temporal needs are satisfied.”

But selfishness is not what I heard when I interviewed people for the “single Mormons in a married church” chapter of The Next Mormons.

Instead, I heard over and over that they want to be responsible about this. All during their young lives, Millennials’ Mormon parents and teachers told them that choosing an eternal companion was the most important decision they would ever make, and Millennials believed them. Now those elders seem surprised and a bit betrayed that Millennials want to get it exactly right.

No backsies, people: temple marriage is supposed to be forever. Millennials want forever. So it’s not a decision they are taking lightly, with whirlwind BYU courtships that result in an engagement three weeks after first meeting. The “hanging out” that President Oaks has decried in the past as a poor substitute for one-on-one dating is not a mutually exclusive alternative to dating, as Oaks seems to portray it, but in the minds of many single Millennials a necessary prelude. People get to know each other in groups without the immediate pressure of a romantic relationship that may last forever, with each person sizing up the other and wondering: “Are you the one?”

In this context it’s not particularly helpful when Mormon leaders accuse young adults of delaying marriage because they are foolish or selfish.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Maksutov
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Re: Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _Maksutov »

Jana better cool her "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed" or she'll be X. :wink:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Craig Paxton
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Re: Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _Craig Paxton »

Thanks for sharing this...very interesting.
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

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_DarkHelmet
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Re: Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Good points. I especially like the point about the contradiction between the importance of eternal marriage while telling young members to just find someone and marry them ASAP.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
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Re: Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _consiglieri »

I remember the days when it was taught that any faithful boy Mormon and any faithful girl Mormon could make a successful marriage. Does anybody else remember that?
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Maksutov
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Re: Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _Maksutov »

consiglieri wrote:I remember the days when it was taught that any faithful boy Mormon and any faithful girl Mormon could make a successful marriage. Does anybody else remember that?


Oh Lord. That explains so much. :eek:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
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Re: Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _Darth J »

I, for one, am grateful to President Dallin H. Oaks and his wife, Sister Kristen Meredith McMain Oaks, for leading by example to show the youth that marriage is about having children.
_Craig Paxton
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Re: Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _Craig Paxton »

consiglieri wrote:I remember the days when it was taught that any faithful boy Mormon and any faithful girl Mormon could make a successful marriage. Does anybody else remember that?


Yes taught by hinkley https://www.LDS.org/ensign/2002/09/choo ... e?lang=eng
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick

“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
_sunstoned
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Re: Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _sunstoned »

consiglieri wrote:I remember the days when it was taught that any faithful boy Mormon and any faithful girl Mormon could make a successful marriage. Does anybody else remember that?


I remember. It's from the same guy who wrote Miracle of Forgiveness. In hind sight, this guy gave a lot of very poor advice that caused many young people much pain and sorrow.
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Re: Riess debunks Oaks call for younger marrieds & more kids

Post by _sunstoned »

Craig Paxton wrote:
consiglieri wrote:I remember the days when it was taught that any faithful boy Mormon and any faithful girl Mormon could make a successful marriage. Does anybody else remember that?


Yes taught by hinkley https://www.LDS.org/ensign/2002/09/choo ... e?lang=eng


I think Hinkley lifted this from SWK,
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes ... _W_Kimball
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