Mormonism and Social Justice

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_moksha
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Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _moksha »

Why do orthodox Mormons hate the concept of social justice? Do they ignore the religious implications in order to reinforce their political beliefs?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Maksutov
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Re: Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _Maksutov »

Because "social justice" has come to be associated with liberalism and therefore is a product of Satan. Also because God doesn't believe in equality. At. All.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Amore
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Re: Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _Amore »

Moksha,
Are you kidding again?

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Most Mormons AND ex-Mormons are evidence that about 70% of the general population are herd followers. Many on this forum once harassed those who didn’t believe as they did in Mormonism. Now they harass and are intolerant of anyone who doesn’t believe as they do. On the rare occasion when someone sees through this group-thought, ideological BS, I am so refreshed and admire them, even if we disagree on some things.
_Amore
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Re: Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _Amore »

moksha wrote:Why do orthodox Mormons hate the concept of social justice? Do they ignore the religious implications in order to reinforce their political beliefs?

Why have many on this forum gone from one extreme to another and then all the while maintained their bigoted (intolerant) herd mentality?

Some on this forum have pressured the poor to give their money for their children’s food - to a corrupt church. And if anyone told them don’t do that or to not blindly follow the Mormon-cult prophet, they’d call them names like “anti-Mormon apostate.”

Those same individuals now blindly follow a different ideological package and join the mob in demanding children be ripped apart and killed in late-term abortion murders. And they mock those with mental illness who are delusional about their sexual anatomy by pretending their delusions are reality. These same individuals join mobs in yelling at the mentally ill to chop off their pe - -s, thinking that others will like them because they are “social justice warriors.”

Bull sh - t! Sick people do things like that. That’s anything but social justice.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Take a long look in the mirror, Amore. You’ll see what you describe as a Mormon.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Amore
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Re: Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _Amore »

Res Ipsa wrote:Take a long look in the mirror, Amore. You’ll see what you describe as a Mormon.

You don’t know me. For some reason I’ve pissed you off by stating truth you hate. If I said, “I ride unicorns to work” you wouldn’t be bothered because you know it isn’t true. People tend to get so angry and bullying as you have with me - when they feel threatened by TRUTH.

ResIspa, did you ever tell someone to give tithe$$$ to the Mormon cult? Did you ever tell poor people they had to pay tithing to the church? I never did. Even before my faith crisis, I questioned church finances. I never went on a cult-mission. Did you? Did you teach dysfunctional cult teachings like “follow the prophet” (above Christ and God)??

So so very hypocritical. Such lack of self-awareness to criticize me for being “bigoted” as you’re criticizing me for not thinking as you! That’s an example of BIGOTRY: you’re intolerant to me and anyone who doesn’t believe your new set of ideologies. Do you realize how ignorant that is? Grow up! Look at yourself in the mirror!

Some go from calling names like “anti-Mormon apostate”... to “bigoted hater homophobe.” Same cult-mentality, different herd.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Amore wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:Take a long look in the mirror, Amore. You’ll see what you describe as a Mormon.

You don’t know me. For some reason I’ve pissed you off by stating truth you hate. If I said, “I ride unicorns to work” you wouldn’t be bothered because you know it isn’t true. People tend to get so angry and bullying as you have with me - when they feel threatened by TRUTH.

ResIspa, did you ever tell someone to give tithe$$$ to the Mormon cult? Did you ever tell poor people they had to pay tithing to the church? I never did. Even before my faith crisis, I questioned church finances. I never went on a cult-mission. Did you? Did you teach dysfunctional cult teachings like “follow the prophet” (above Christ and God)??

So so very hypocritical. Such lack of self-awareness to criticize me for being “bigoted” as you’re criticizing me for not thinking as you! That’s an example of BIGOTRY: you’re intolerant to me and anyone who doesn’t believe your new set of ideologies. Do you realize how ignorant that is? Grow up! Look at yourself in the mirror!

Some go from calling names like “anti-Mormon apostate”... to “bigoted hater homophobe.” Same cult-mentality, different herd.


Do you see the projection? You object that I don't know you, and then proceed to psychologically diagnose me. And, as usual, you get it wrong. The reason I object to your demonization of non-binary folks is the harm you cause, not the "truth" of what you say. I would not object strenuously to your statement about unicorns because I don't see that it would harm anyone. In contrast, I've witnessed the harm done to non-binary folks by people who behave like you. It's abusive, it's hateful, and I will strenuously oppose it when I see it.

What's worse is that speaking the "TRUTH" is not what you do. What you do is regurgitate factoids -- some accurate, some not -- hateful, anti-gay so-called Christian websites. Even the factoids that are literally true are often misleading because they are presented out of context. But you even go beyond that and claim that your opinions about non-binary folk and "truth," when they obviously aren't. And there is nothing loving or kind about the way you do it -- it's intended to foment anger, fear, and disgust toward your fellow humans.

I've been on ex-mormon boards for a long time, and from time to time I've seen folks who are obsessed with accusing others of "thinking like a Mormon." And to a person they have one thing in common -- they "think like a Mormon" more than anyone else. They share the fundamental arrogance of Mormonism -- that they know "the truth" and that everyone should accept their truth. They know what is best for everyone -- even people they know nothing about. And they are harshly judgmental of anyone who disagrees.

You also aren't the first person I've run into who uses "herd mentality" as a thought stopping cliché. But you miss a couple of things. First, you display many characteristics of your old Mormon herd. The arrogance. The claim to TRUTH. Rejection of non-binary folks. Hatred of atheists. But you're so obsessed with finding motes that you miss the beam. You also miss the fact that cutting and pasting from gay-hating websites is exactly herd-like thinking. You've posted "facts" from them that I've shown are demonstrably false. Why? You followed along like a sheep rather than exercising the slightest bit of independent thought by checking their sources. That's bona fide herd thinking.

I once dedicated a whole thread to giving you an opportunity to make a straightforward, logical argument from your "factoids" to your conclusion (gay folks should be denied marriage). You literally couldn't do it. There was no logic or valid reasoning to your argument. That's because you're following a herd rather than thinking for yourself. You cited certain studies, comparing apples to oranges. Why? Because you didn't independently think through what the studies you cited actually meant. You just took what somebody else said for granted. That's bona-fide herd thinking.

But you simply use the term as a thought-stopping cliché to avoid having to address the substance of valid arguments raised against your position. And you do it with complete and utter arrogance.

Can you see your own blindness? You object to being labeled as a bigot, but you have no trouble at all labeling millions of people you've never met as "deviant," "mentally ill," "sick" and much worse in other posts. By your own logic, if I am wrong for labeling you as a "bigot," then you are just as wrong for slapping derogatory labels on millions of other people. If I'm a hypocrite, you're a hypocrite a million times over.

You protest that I'm bullying you by labeling you as a bigot. Telling teenagers that they are mentally ill, or sick, or deviant is much more bullying. Are you going to commit suicide because I called you a bigot. That's what teenage kids do when they are bullied by bigoted adults about their sexuality. Mote and beam, Amore. Mote and beam.

You're the bully here, Amore. You just can't see it because your self-righteousness gets in the way.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_huckelberry
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Re: Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _huckelberry »

Amore wrote:
moksha wrote:Why do orthodox Mormons hate the concept of social justice? Do they ignore the religious implications in order to reinforce their political beliefs?

Those same individuals now blindly follow a different ideological package and join the mob in demanding children be ripped apart and killed in late-term abortion murders. ........

I am not aware of anybody. much less a mob, making such a demand.
_huckelberry
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Re: Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _huckelberry »

moksha wrote:Why do orthodox Mormons hate the concept of social justice? Do they ignore the religious implications in order to reinforce their political beliefs?


Moksha, there is a puzzle in this that is worth review but I am unsure if I have much new to add. Social Justice of course refers to civil rights and worker rights as considered over the past couple hundred years. One thinks of Douglas, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Eleanor Roosevelt, Johnson with civil rights acts and of course Martin Luther King, Malcolm X to name a few in a long line.

I do not remember these people being lionized in LDS church, they have not been LDS. When I was a youth the civil rights leaders were attacked on the grounds they were disrupting the order of society. Negros were supposed to wait untill they earned the rights. Is that attitude from fear or a distaste for considering the possiblity that superior social position may not be entirely earned.

I had a seminary teacher who became increasingly conservative extreme. He viewed the gospel as the demand to obey laws and to individually earn station or money from individual hard work and commitment. he took to religiously listening to motivational sales tapes. I really started to think it was squeezing out other religious activities( concern for others, prayer etc)

Perhaps it is just so many church obligation that there is not much room for social justice.

Perhaps pride in church and financial accomplishment starts to become more valuable.

Perhaps Mormons are all of Gods most choice spirits and the disadvantaged people are just getting what they deserve.

There are dimensions of Mormon thinking which sees salvation and spiritual growth as a community affair. People grow together. Mormons focus on that with other Mormons , outsiders not so much.
_moksha
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Re: Mormonism and Social Justice

Post by _moksha »

huckelberry wrote:Mormons focus on that with other Mormons, outsiders not so much.

The Brethren in the last century did not want unions for Mormon workers, because they were business owners. Mormon workers bought into that because that was the will of their Authorities. The Brethren do not encourage the provision of healthcare for all and so the members are against it. When it comes to shelter for the homeless or bread for the hungry they give mixed messages but are usually in agreement that society-wide efforts should be avoided.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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