Mormon Universalism - are the temple ceremonies really necessary?

[MG 2.0]

There's no business better than being able to sell the disease and the cure!

What is the disease?

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

There's no business better than being able to sell the disease and the cure!

What is the disease?

Regards,
MG

Planting into fellow humans the idea that they are required to pay 10% of their income to a corporation in order to avoid eternal punishment, loss of their genitals in the afterlife, and contact with their families who are in another segregated section of eternity. It's a mental disease that affects millions of Mormons and benefits immeasurably a few dozen lawyers and businessmen.

[MG 2.0]

What is the disease?

Regards,
MG

Planting into fellow humans the idea that they are required to pay 10% of their income to a corporation in order to avoid eternal punishment, loss of their genitals in the afterlife, and contact with their families who are in another segregated section of eternity. It's a mental disease that affects millions of Mormons and benefits immeasurably a few dozen lawyers and businessmen.

So the disease consists of things you don’t agree with or sign off on.

OK. Thanks for clarifying.

Some might say the disease is the fallen nature of man.

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

Planting into fellow humans the idea that they are required to pay 10% of their income to a corporation in order to avoid eternal punishment, loss of their genitals in the afterlife, and contact with their families who are in another segregated section of eternity. It's a mental disease that affects millions of Mormons and benefits immeasurably a few dozen lawyers and businessmen.

So the disease consists of things you don’t agree with or sign off on.

OK. Thanks for clarifying.

Some might say the disease is the fallen nature of man.

It's identical to being in an abusive relationship. The abuser has to keep the abused person believing that they are broken, so that they remain dependent.

It's not easy for the abused person to step outside of that distorted reality and see things objectively. I do feel for Mormons, and this is why there are a lot of us trying desperately to help get them away from the abuse.

That's why when you say Mormonism works for you, I respond the same way I would to a wife who says her husband only hits her because he loves her.

[malkie]

What is the disease?

Regards,
MG

Planting into fellow humans the idea that they are required to pay 10% of their income to a corporation in order to avoid eternal punishment, loss of their genitals in the afterlife, and contact with their families who are in another segregated section of eternity. It's a mental disease that affects millions of Mormons and benefits immeasurably a few dozen lawyers and businessmen.

Can we hear from non-Mormon Christians about eternal expectations?

What do Evangelicals and other Christians teach about whether we can expect to be with family & friends in heaven, and what it takes to get there?

Is the Mormon idea of being united as a family in the eternities unique? Outside of Mormonism, is there a requirement for saving ordinances that can be carried out only in a place to which access is restricted in the way that it is to Mormon temples?

[MG 2.0]

So the disease consists of things you don’t agree with or sign off on.

OK. Thanks for clarifying.

Some might say the disease is the fallen nature of man.

It's identical to being in an abusive relationship. The abuser has to keep the abused person believing that they are broken, so that they remain dependent.

It's not easy for the abused person to step outside of that distorted reality and see things objectively. I do feel for Mormons, and this is why there are a lot of us trying desperately to help get them away from the abuse.

That's why when you say Mormonism works for you, I respond the same way I would to a wife who says her husband only hits her because he loves her.

I’m sorry you feel that way in regards to your relationship with the church. I have NEVER felt like the church was out to do me any harm. Yes, I know, this is what you would expect from someone trapped in a cult, etc. I can tell you, however, the LDS Church is not the Church of Scientology or anything similar. The fact that you believe this is the case may say more about you than it does the CofJCofLDS or it’s members.

Do you feel/believe that you are being mistreated or abused by a Heavenly Father? Or are you just kind of doing your own thing so as not to have this question in your mind at all?

What was it that turned you away from a life of faithful activity in the LDS Church? Did you come to believe that you weren’t ‘broken’ in any way and had no continued need for repentance, etc.?

Your desperate need to pull people away from living the gospel of Jesus Christ is unfortunate, in my opinion. Latter Day Saints are trying every day to improve and become more like the Savior.

Why would you fault them for that or want to destroy their faith in God, or convince them that they are in the wrong way? Aren’t there more serviceable things you could be doing?

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

What I would suggest to both of you is that the Mormon greed for 10% of their members' income is unique compared to every other major religion. The amount is specific, when most other religions are vague. It is strongly enforced, when most other religions are not. Scientology is the only other one I can think of which similarly asks members to pay to play.

I'm not aware of any other religion that has a mandatory financial settlement meeting every year with church leaders to determine your access to salvation based on your tithing receipts.


Some statistics:

Most Christian congregations only 10-25% of the members pay tithing.
The average amount paid is 2.5%.
96% of practicing Christians have given some amount to charity.

https://pushpay.com/blog/church-giving-statistics/

[malkie]

What I would suggest to both of you is that the Mormon greed for 10% of their members' income is unique compared to every other major religion. The amount is specific, when most other religions are vague. It is strongly enforced, when most other religions are not. Scientology is the only other one I can think of which similarly asks members to pay to play.

I'm not aware of any other religion that has a mandatory financial settlement meeting every year with church leaders to determine your access to salvation based on your tithing receipts.


Some statistics:

Most Christian congregations only 10-25% of the members pay tithing.
The average amount paid is 2.5%.
96% of practicing Christians have given some amount to charity.

https://pushpay.com/blog/church-giving-statistics/

Hey DD, I assume when you say "to both of you" you mean you are addressing MG and me - right? That means (to me) that you were responding to my most recent comment on this thread.

Sorry - I don't know if you are a non-Mormon Christian, but if so, can you shed any light on the answers to my questions?

As far as your other statements on the thread go, I'm pretty much in agreement with you (but perhaps would be a little softer in how I expressed it), though I didn't always see things that way.

[malkie]

Your desperate need to pull people away from living the gospel of Jesus Christ is unfortunate, in my opinion. Latter Day Saints are trying every day to improve and become more like the Savior.

Why would you fault them for that or want to destroy their faith in God, or convince them that they are in the wrong way? Aren’t there more serviceable things you could be doing?

Regards,
MG

How ironic!

The desperate need of the Mormon church to pull people away from living the gospel of Jesus Christ in their family's usual way is unfortunate, in my opinion. Most of these people are likely trying every day to improve and become more like the Savior.

Why would you fault them for that or want to destroy their faith in God, or convince them that they are in the wrong way? Aren’t there more serviceable things Mormon missionaries could be doing?

[drumdude]

Can we hear from non-Mormon Christians about eternal expectations?

What do Evangelicals and other Christians teach about whether we can expect to be with family & friends in heaven, and what it takes to get there?

Is the Mormon idea of being united as a family in the eternities unique? Outside of Mormonism, is there a requirement for saving ordinances that can be carried out only in a place to which access is restricted in the way that it is to Mormon temples?

I'll talk about Catholics authoritatively, since evangelicals vary wildly.

Catholicism, for example, does not require any Catholic to pay a cent to take communion, be married in the church, receive last rites, ect. None of the ordinances (they call them sacraments) are walled behind a financial settlement meeting with church leaders.

Catholics and other Christians have the trope "til death do us part" in their marriage ceremonies but most of them make no specific guesses about how families will look after death. In practice at funerals it is nearly universal to say to the grieving family "You will see them again." There is no concept of sealing families in the afterlife in either Catholicism or evangelical Christianity. Families are assumed to be able to see each other again by default with no financial extortion like Mormonism has.

Catholics can get baptized for free. Catholics can get married for free. Evangelicals can get both for free. It's only Mormons that say, "Wait a minute. Before you get sealed in the temple we need to talk about how much you have donated. And if your family wants to attend, we will need to see their receipts as well..."