New Project Shows Church Finance Corruption

[MG 2.0]

60% of church membership is outside of the United States. Hypothetically speaking, if one was to determine whether or not the majority of the church, which exists outside of the U.S., could maintain themselves financially over the long haul without significant financial reserves is literally the billion(s) dollar question.

No, that's not true, it is not a question at all. Even if the LDS church took in 0% tithing from 100% of its membership, they would still have enough interest income to cover 100% of their operating costs AND have at least 10billion leftover interest to grow their investment hoard even larger. They could do this indefinitely.

We tend to focus on the 40% rather than the 60%. Personally, I’m comfortable with more financial reserves than less in an international church which sees the U.S. as less than half of its membership. And that trend is more than likely to continue.

that is irrelevant. See my comment above.

It’s not irrelevant. Oh, you left part of my post out.

Europe, including the UK is 3% of church membership. South and Central America are over 30%. So you would have an interesting mix of economic structures holding up the church. As it is, what happens within the 40% of the church that consists of members in the U.S. matters. The financial reserves then become of grater importance. At some point we may see those reserves becoming integral to the overall temporal health of the church.

This is relevant also.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

No, that's not true, it is not a question at all. Even if the LDS church took in 0% tithing from 100% of its membership, they would still have enough interest income to cover 100% of their operating costs AND have at least 10billion leftover interest to grow their investment hoard even larger. They could do this indefinitely.
that is irrelevant. See my comment above.

It’s not irrelevant. Oh, you left part of my post out.

Europe, including the UK is 3% of church membership. South and Central America are over 30%. So you would have an interesting mix of economic structures holding up the church. As it is, what happens within the 40% of the church that consists of members in the U.S. matters. The financial reserves then become of grater importance. At some point we may see those reserves becoming integral to the overall temporal health of the church.

This is relevant also.

No, it is not relevant.

If worldwide operating costs were to be covered by the interest income, then it is irrelevant whether you add up that worldwide budget as areas labeled 60% +40%, or 3% +30% +40% + 27%, or any other combination.

The point is that the total budget is more than covered by the interest income, which right now is more than twice the worldwide operating costs, and that's just based on the investment accounts people have found.

Again, the LDS church has hoarded such an obscene amount of money that they could literally never collect tithing again, cover their full operating costs, and still have enough interest left over to add at least 10 billion, YEARLY, to grow their hoard. FOREVER. Do you understand that? The principle of annuities?

Instead, they nickel and dime generations of LDS, and hound people in poverty with the threat of not seeing their children marry in the temple. It is shameful.

There is no reason whatsoever to hoard that much money. And given that the LDS church is taking advantage of tax law to build up this hoard, when the purpose of tax exemption is to help churches provide charitable services, I find their actions even more morally repugnant.

[MG 2.0]

It’s not irrelevant. Oh, you left part of my post out.



This is relevant also.

No, it is not relevant.

If worldwide operating costs were to be covered by the interest income, then it is irrelevant whether you add up that worldwide budget as areas labeled 60% +40%, or 3% +30% +40% + 27%, or any other combination.

The point is that the total budget is more than covered by the interest income, which right now is more than twice the worldwide operating costs, and that's just based on the investment accounts people have found.

Again, the LDS church has hoarded such an obscene amount of money that they could literally never collect tithing again, cover their full operating costs, and still have enough interest left over to add at least 10 billion, YEARLY, to grow their hoard. FOREVER. Do you understand that? The principle of annuities?

Instead, they nickel and dime generations of LDS, and hound people in poverty with the threat of not seeing their children marry in the temple. It is shameful.

There is no reason whatsoever to hoard that much money. And given that the LDS church is taking advantage of tax law to build up this hoard, when the purpose of tax exemption is to help churches provide charitable services, I find their actions even more morally repugnant.

What about the future? What if economic conditions and/or markets here in the states or in other areas of the world degrade five years from now? Ten years from now? Cryptocurrency effects, etc.

I doubt that you have the financial acumen/savvy to make any firm and standing predictions for the future. You might think you can, but I have literally no reason to put ANY confidence in what you say.

I do believe that the church has its eyes on the future and the possibilities of economic irregularities and issues that would entail having a significant buffer against financial hardship for the church.

Say what you want, but I’m OK with the billions of dollars the church has in reserve. And I’m cool with tithing as long as it is a ‘law unto the church’. I do believe that over the years, and it’s been quite a few now, that our family has been blessed by paying an honest tithe to the Lord.

I realize your mileage may vary. And that’s OK. Keep your money.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

No, it is not relevant.

If worldwide operating costs were to be covered by the interest income, then it is irrelevant whether you add up that worldwide budget as areas labeled 60% +40%, or 3% +30% +40% + 27%, or any other combination.

The point is that the total budget is more than covered by the interest income, which right now is more than twice the worldwide operating costs, and that's just based on the investment accounts people have found.

Again, the LDS church has hoarded such an obscene amount of money that they could literally never collect tithing again, cover their full operating costs, and still have enough interest left over to add at least 10 billion, YEARLY, to grow their hoard. FOREVER. Do you understand that? The principle of annuities?

Instead, they nickel and dime generations of LDS, and hound people in poverty with the threat of not seeing their children marry in the temple. It is shameful.

There is no reason whatsoever to hoard that much money. And given that the LDS church is taking advantage of tax law to build up this hoard, when the purpose of tax exemption is to help churches provide charitable services, I find their actions even more morally repugnant.

What about the future? What if economic conditions and/or markets here in the states or in other areas of the world degrade five years from now? Ten years from now? Cryptocurrency effects, etc.

I doubt that you have the financial acumen/savvy to make any firm and standing predictions for the future. You might think you can, but I have literally no reason to put ANY confidence in what you say.

I do believe that the church has its eyes on the future and the possibilities of economic irregularities and issues that would entail having a significant buffer against financial hardship for the church.

Say what you want, but I’m OK with the billions of dollars the church has in reserve. And I’m cool with tithing as long as it is a ‘law unto the church’. I do believe that over the years, and it’s been quite a few now, that our family has been blessed by paying an honest tithe to the Lord.

I realize your mileage may vary. And that’s OK. Keep your money.

Regards,
MG

cryptocurrency? anyway, so it seems I was right. You DON'T understand the concept of annuities.

That's ok.

[MG 2.0]

What about the future? What if economic conditions and/or markets here in the states or in other areas of the world degrade five years from now? Ten years from now? Cryptocurrency effects, etc.

I doubt that you have the financial acumen/savvy to make any firm and standing predictions for the future. You might think you can, but I have literally no reason to put ANY confidence in what you say.

I do believe that the church has its eyes on the future and the possibilities of economic irregularities and issues that would entail having a significant buffer against financial hardship for the church.

Say what you want, but I’m OK with the billions of dollars the church has in reserve. And I’m cool with tithing as long as it is a ‘law unto the church’. I do believe that over the years, and it’s been quite a few now, that our family has been blessed by paying an honest tithe to the Lord.

I realize your mileage may vary. And that’s OK. Keep your money.

Regards,
MG

cryptocurrency? anyway, so it seems I was right. You DON'T understand the concept of annuities.

That's ok.

My point is that it is difficult,to predict the state of affairs in a worldwide economy that has become more interconnected. Cryptocurrency may impact the world economy in ways yet unforeseen completely.

With the emergence of Bitcoin and all the over 1,000 cryptocoins, financial transactions are being decentralized on a massive scale. These decentralized transactions have no recourse whatsoever to the US Dollar. This changes the dynamics of international trade, foreign relations, diplomacy, and the impact of economic sanctions. There have always been attempts to “de-dollarize” the global economy and cryptocurrencies seem to be a veritable means of achieving that goal.

By cutting out the middleman in the payment processing market, cryptocurrencies are causing a huge disruption to the global payment system. One of the reasons for the centralized payment processing protocol is to prevent funding for money laundering, terrorist activities, and illicit trade in drugs and ammunition. With cryptocurrencies, it becomes that much harder to trace transactions and ascertain the identities of the participants. Central banks and other financial institutions seem to have no control over its operations. In September of 2017, Christine Lagarde, head of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) warned that cryptocurrencies have the potential to disrupt the Central Banking system and to revolutionize the concept of money.

https://medium.com/the-mission/how-cryp ... 347581aa93

I notice that you hone in on a word, paste emojis, make a snide remark, and dart away. That’s no way to carry on an intelligent conversation, or at least one where we can learn and grow from sharing with each other rather than ‘hit and runs’.

With unpredictability in the future world financial systems, again, I am supportive of long range precautions and preparations that the church is inspired to make.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

cryptocurrency? anyway, so it seems I was right. You DON'T understand the concept of annuities.

That's ok.

My point is that it is difficult,to predict the state of affairs in a worldwide economy that has become more interconnected. Cryptocurrency may impact the world economy in ways yet unforeseen completely.

With the emergence of Bitcoin and all the over 1,000 cryptocoins, financial transactions are being decentralized on a massive scale. These decentralized transactions have no recourse whatsoever to the US Dollar. This changes the dynamics of international trade, foreign relations, diplomacy, and the impact of economic sanctions. There have always been attempts to “de-dollarize” the global economy and cryptocurrencies seem to be a veritable means of achieving that goal.

By cutting out the middleman in the payment processing market, cryptocurrencies are causing a huge disruption to the global payment system. One of the reasons for the centralized payment processing protocol is to prevent funding for money laundering, terrorist activities, and illicit trade in drugs and ammunition. With cryptocurrencies, it becomes that much harder to trace transactions and ascertain the identities of the participants. Central banks and other financial institutions seem to have no control over its operations. In September of 2017, Christine Lagarde, head of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) warned that cryptocurrencies have the potential to disrupt the Central Banking system and to revolutionize the concept of money.

https://medium.com/the-mission/how-cryp ... 347581aa93

I notice that you hone in on a word, paste emojis, make a snide remark, and dart away. That’s no way to carry on an intelligent conversation, or at least one where we can learn and grow from sharing with each other rather than ‘hit and runs’.

With unpredictability in the future world financial systems, again, I am supportive of long range precautions and preparations that the church is inspired to make.

Regards,
MG

Another quote that has no relevance. Do you or do you not understand the concept of an annuity?

To respond to your comment, you have been the same in every thread I've participated in for the last several days. I post when I have something to say, but yourcomments are mostly not logical or consistent and seem constantly driven by the need to always try to make your church look good. Even if it makes you contradict yourself! You are clearly here just to pick a fight. Are you aware of how this makes you look? And your constant attempts at condescending insults are just laughable. It's been a while, but I really don't remember LDS church members being so illogical and insufferable, all at the same time.

[MG 2.0]

My point is that it is difficult,to predict the state of affairs in a worldwide economy that has become more interconnected. Cryptocurrency may impact the world economy in ways yet unforeseen completely.



I notice that you hone in on a word, paste emojis, make a snide remark, and dart away. That’s no way to carry on an intelligent conversation, or at least one where we can learn and grow from sharing with each other rather than ‘hit and runs’.

With unpredictability in the future world financial systems, again, I am supportive of long range precautions and preparations that the church is inspired to make.

Regards,
MG

Another quote that has no relevance. Do you or do you not understand the concept of an annuity?

To respond to your comment, you have been the same in every thread I've participated in for the last several days. I post when I have something to say, but yourcomments are mostly not logical or consistent and seem constantly driven by the need to always try to make your church look good. Even if it makes you contradict yourself! You are clearly here just to pick a fight. Are you aware of how this makes you look? And your constant attempts at condescending insults are just laughable. It's been a while, but I really don't remember LDS church members being so illogical and insufferable, all at the same time.

All righty then. You da’ man.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Another quote that has no relevance. Do you or do you not understand the concept of an annuity?

All righty then. You da’ man.

I'll take that as a "NO."

[MG 2.0]

All righty then. You da’ man.

I'll take that as a "NO."

I’ve expressed my thoughts as far as they go on this thread. I’ll leave the remaining pages and posts, if any, to you and those others that are like minded.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Ok, thanks. If you don’t understand annuities you really should step out, because your uneducated cheerleading for your church is just doing damage to your cause.

One post that I think deserved a second look is this.

They are saving for a pandemic but not this one because it was too much of a financial bonanza for them to resist investing more. No, the pandemic they are saving for will need $Trillions upon $Trillions. It'll take a lot of cash to be able to lend the kind of money to the desperate in that day.

I have considered it extensively, and spoken first hand with a number of the key decision makers. There is no plan. The reason is because the brethren, deep down, do not have the same faith that they ask members to have, when it comes to money and generosity.

I can see the ‘no plan’ part, just running on automatic, because no one dares disagree with a higher up. According to many who have worked at the COB and for various LDS organizations, it is not a healthy, positive environment. That’s so much money to waste, though. And it is being wasted. Sitting in massive accounts, doing no good. It really makes a mockery of the tas exemption for churches in this country.