The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
huckelberry
Area Authority
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by huckelberry »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:29 pm

Hey Huck... I just really enjoyed reading your missive here. Well stated. Thanks. I think the older I get, ironically, the less I think about heaven, and the more I realize man, we have a life to live right here, right now, lets live it. That is not to say I don't think heaven is real, it very may well be, but we are here for now, and so here and now is what to focus on. Heaven can wait. I don't think it really matters what you think of Jesus, like him, hate him, ignore him, but he got it right to love others. That just has seemed to resonate with me stronger the older I get. Be kind, and make friends, and just smile and enjoy what life we have right here, right now.
Philo, I am glad you got a bit of enjoyment from my comments. I sympathize with your comments here. Do not forget your outside locations and friends.
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 3578
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Peering over your left shoulder

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by Res Ipsa »

Huck, just adding a me too to those who have expressed appreciation for your post.
he/him
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds….”
Ralph Waldo Emerson
MG 2.0
Apostle
Posts: 796
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:55 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:09 pm
If you used the word ‘scientist’ or ‘scientific’, or a word like unto it, each time you use the words magic or magical I think your prejudices wouldn’t show through. Laws based on math and formulaic outcomes aren’t magical. It seems as though you think God might create the universe in a similar fashion to a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat. 🙂
Are you suggesting that your proposition of 'god did it' is just a supernatural being following natural laws?

Are you suggesting otherwise? If so, there is no difference between a universe evolving according to scientific processes, and a god who oversees a universe evolving according to scientific processes. You invoked occam's razor earlier on, and by your own definition of that, an evolving natural process requires fewer assumptions than a god plus an evolving natural process.
“Natural processes”, what does that even mean?

After watching this presentation return and report.

https://youtu.be/r4sP1E1Jd_Y

By the way, in response to “intent” having to be shown before believing that Fine Tuning holds any water in as far as intelligence being at play, that’s just an easy way out from having to really look at all the evidence and seeing it for what it is. Reverse engineering can be done on a complex system, but that doesn’t explain how it got there. Especially when trying to explain the intricate coordination between individual systems and the greater whole to end up with something that works as it does.

The universe and human souls living and breathing within that larger enclosed system, conducive to the propagation and continuation of life, would have to be an absolute ‘miracle’ for a scientific explanation to describe the creation. Especially for abiogenesis to have occurred , per the video I linked to.

Anyway, carry on. I noticed this thread was still semi-active when I popped in and thought I’d add one more conundrum to mull over.

There will be some here that won’t give James Tour much of a look since he is a ‘believer’, but be that as it may, you can’t say much against his accomplishments and credentials. It’s worth the time to follow some of his other presentations on YouTube.

Regards,
MG
Marcus
Valiant B
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:44 pm

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by Marcus »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:34 pm
After watching this presentation return and report.

https://youtu.be/r4sP1E1Jd_Y
Return and report???? You've got to be kidding me. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now that I've got that out of my system, let's try this:

....if you would like to express your opinion about that link, in your own words, in a legitimate on-topic post, i'm sure someone would read it.

:roll: Nope, I just can't do It. Your methods are too low-effort. Back to my first response.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
and thought I’d add one more conundrum to mull over.
Given that that 'conundrum', as you define it, was thoroughly discussed some pages back, I'd say you're better off reading the thread and catching up. Let us know when you're done. You could even-dare I say it," return and report."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 3578
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Peering over your left shoulder

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:08 am
dastardly stem wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:05 pm



How would you know? Why are you quick to pretend to know the lives, thoughts and intentions of others?
I think I made a matter of fact statement. Isn’t it easier to ‘choose your own adventure’ and avoid that which you see as an impediment to where you want to go?

Common sense. Right?

Alternatively, to bend your will to that of of another is not easy. It is the harder road. I wouldn’t do it unless I had a fairly high degree of trust in the source of the guidance and dependability of the roadmap.

I’d guess we would probably agree on that point. It would be silly to follow a map that leads nowhere.

There are cartographers and then there are Cartographers.

I agree with you, however, that if you as a person don’t trust a particular map to get you where you want to go, you should make your own way.

I wish you luck.

Regards,
MG
Except it’s not common sense at all. You choose your own adventure just like everyone else does. You just fill yourself into believing differently. You have to make every single choice that I do in deciding how to live your life from day to day. In fact, I could argue that having to construct your own system of values and ethics is much harder than wholesale adoption of a detailed rules. But, having been both a believing Mormon and an atheist and everything in between, I don’t think that’s true. It’s all picking and choosing from different sources with advice of how to be a decent human being. Being a faithful Mormon doesn’t give you a rule set that determines every decision you are faced with. You have to decide what all the millions of words in the scriptures and all the words of your prophets mean and how they apply to the decision that is in front of you right now. And those words are full of ambiguity and contradiction. The notion that you aren’t choosing your own adventure is just an illusion.

I will tell you one thing that’s different: I have to take 100% responsibility for my decisions and the consequences of my actions. I don’t have the luxury of laying off my responsibility on The prophet, the Church, or God. I can never excuse any harm I caused to a fellow humans by saying “I’m following the Prophet,”

I experience my moral and ethical choices as choices. Your religion folks you into thinking you aren’t making moral and ethical choices for which you are responsible.

That you use your religion to fool yourself into thinking you aren’t choosing your own adventure in no way puts you in a superior position to those who take full responsibility for their moral and ethical choices.
he/him
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds….”
Ralph Waldo Emerson
MG 2.0
Apostle
Posts: 796
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:44 pm
You've got to be kidding me.
Your excessive use of emojis as window dressing for a lack of substantive response is rather silly. 😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄

😉

And it doesn’t deflect the fact that you are unwilling to look at evidence, from a world renowned expert, that might result in having to do a double take in regards to your cherished position of disbelief in the supernatural and your strongly held views in silly string/multiverse mumbo jumbo.

My guess is that you’ve never heard of or listened to James Tour. And asking me to simply regurgitate what he’s presenting? Give me a break. Watch it and see whether or not you can fully assimilate everything he says.

The long and short of it? Abiogenesis couldn’t have happened through random chance, there was an intelligence directing the whole process.

I challenge you to at LEAST listen and learn. Don’t be stuck in a rut.

https://youtu.be/r4sP1E1Jd_Y

Regards,
MG
Marcus
Valiant B
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:44 pm

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by Marcus »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:16 pm
Marcus wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:44 pm
You've got to be kidding me.
And it doesn’t deflect the fact that you are unwilling to look at evidence...
Too funny. I can't believe you didn't get my point, but just in case, let me try again.
Marcus wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:44 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:34 pm
After watching this presentation return and report.

https://youtu.be/r4sP1E1Jd_Y
Return and report???? You've got to be kidding me. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now that I've got that out of my system, let's try this:

....if you would like to express your opinion about that link, in your own words, in a legitimate on-topic post, i'm sure someone would read it.
Feel free to express your opinion, in your own words. But giving assignments? Please. Grow up.
Marcus
Valiant B
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:44 pm

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by Marcus »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:51 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:08 am


I think I made a matter of fact statement. Isn’t it easier to ‘choose your own adventure’ and avoid that which you see as an impediment to where you want to go?

Common sense. Right?

Alternatively, to bend your will to that of of another is not easy. It is the harder road. I wouldn’t do it unless I had a fairly high degree of trust in the source of the guidance and dependability of the roadmap.

I’d guess we would probably agree on that point. It would be silly to follow a map that leads nowhere.

There are cartographers and then there are Cartographers.

I agree with you, however, that if you as a person don’t trust a particular map to get you where you want to go, you should make your own way.

I wish you luck.

Regards,
MG
Except it’s not common sense at all. You choose your own adventure just like everyone else does. You just fill yourself into believing differently. You have to make every single choice that I do in deciding how to live your life from day to day. In fact, I could argue that having to construct your own system of values and ethics is much harder than wholesale adoption of a detailed rules. But, having been both a believing Mormon and an atheist and everything in between, I don’t think that’s true. It’s all picking and choosing from different sources with advice of how to be a decent human being. Being a faithful Mormon doesn’t give you a rule set that determines every decision you are faced with. You have to decide what all the millions of words in the scriptures and all the words of your prophets mean and how they apply to the decision that is in front of you right now. And those words are full of ambiguity and contradiction. The notion that you aren’t choosing your own adventure is just an illusion.

I will tell you one thing that’s different: I have to take 100% responsibility for my decisions and the consequences of my actions. I don’t have the luxury of laying off my responsibility on The prophet, the Church, or God. I can never excuse any harm I caused to a fellow humans by saying “I’m following the Prophet,”

I experience my moral and ethical choices as choices. Your religion folks you into thinking you aren’t making moral and ethical choices for which you are responsible.

That you use your religion to fool yourself into thinking you aren’t choosing your own adventure in no way puts you in a superior position to those who take full responsibility for their moral and ethical choices.
This says it all.
User avatar
Morley
2nd Counselor
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:17 pm
Location: Fragonard

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by Morley »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:34 pm
“Natural processes”, what does that even mean?

After watching this presentation return and report.

https://youtu.be/r4sP1E1Jd_Y
MG 2.0:

Professor Dave rebuts James Tour.

Watch this, then return and report.

https://youtu.be/Jf72o6HmVNk

Double spaced, no less than 1500 words. I want your best handwriting.
MG 2.0
Apostle
Posts: 796
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

Post by MG 2.0 »

Morley wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:58 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:34 pm
“Natural processes”, what does that even mean?

After watching this presentation return and report.

https://youtu.be/r4sP1E1Jd_Y
MG 2.0:

Professor Dave rebuts James Tour.

Watch this, then return and report.

https://youtu.be/Jf72o6HmVNk

Double spaced, no less than 1500 words. I want your best handwriting.
Ah, Professor Dave.

He received a BA in chemistry from Carleton College, and performed graduate studies in both synthetic organic chemistry and science education at Cal State Northridge, receiving an MA in the latter. Prior to this, he taught for about a decade in various high school and undergraduate settings, specializing in organic chemistry but also teaching general chemistry, physics, and biology.
You’re holding up this YouTuber up against James Tour?

James M. Tour, a synthetic organic chemist, received his Bachelor of Science degree in chemistry from Syracuse University, his Ph.D. in synthetic organic and organometallic chemistry from Purdue University, and postdoctoral training in synthetic organic chemistry at the University of Wisconsin and Stanford University. After spending 11 years on the faculty of the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry at the University of South Carolina, he joined the Center for Nanoscale Science and Technology at Rice University in 1999 where he is presently the T. T. and W. F. Chao Professor of Chemistry, Professor of Computer Science, and Professor of Materials Science and NanoEngineering. Tour’s scientific research areas include nanoelectronics, graphene electronics, silicon oxide electronics, carbon nanovectors for medical applications, green carbon research for enhanced oil recovery and environmentally friendly oil and gas extraction, graphene photovoltaics, carbon supercapacitors, lithium ion batteries, CO2 capture, water splitting to H2 and O2, water purification, carbon nanotube and graphene synthetic modifications, graphene oxide, carbon composites, hydrogen storage on nanoengineered carbon scaffolds, and synthesis of single-molecule nanomachines which includes molecular motors and nanocars.

Professor Tour has over 740 research publications and over 150 patent families, with an h-index = 159 with total citations over 117,000. In 2021, he won the Oesper Award from the American Chemical Society which is awarded to “outstanding chemists for lifetime significant accomplishments in the field of chemistry with long-lasting impact on the chemical sciences.” In 2020, he became a Fellow of the Royal Society of Chemistry and in the same year was awarded the Royal Society of Chemistry’s Centenary Prize for innovations in materials chemistry with applications in medicine and nanotechnology. Based on the impact of his published work, in 2019 Tour was ranked in the top 0.004% of the 7 million scientists who have published at least 5 papers in their careers. He was inducted into the National Academy of Inventors in 2015. Tour was named among “The 50 Most Influential Scientists in the World Today” by TheBestSchools.org in 2019; listed in “The World’s Most Influential Scientific Minds” by Thomson Reuters ScienceWatch.com in 2014; and recipient of the Trotter Prize in “Information, Complexity and Inference” in 2014; and was the Lady Davis Visiting Professor, Hebrew University, June, 2014. Tour was named “Scientist of the Year” by R&D Magazine, 2013. He was awarded the George R. Brown Award for Superior Teaching, 2012, Rice University; won the ACS Nano Lectureship Award from the American Chemical Society, 2012; was the Lady Davis Visiting Professor, Hebrew University, June, 2011 and was elected Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), 2009. Tour was ranked one of the Top 10 chemists in the world over the past decade, by a Thomson Reuters citations per publication index survey, 2009; won the Distinguished Alumni Award, Purdue University, 2009 and the Houston Technology Center’s Nanotechnology Award in 2009. He won the Feynman Prize in Experimental Nanotechnology in 2008, the NASA Space Act Award in 2008 for his development of carbon nanotube reinforced elastomers and the Arthur C. Cope Scholar Award from the American Chemical Society for his achievements in organic chemistry in 2007. Tour was the recipient of the George R. Brown Award for Superior Teaching in 2007. He also won the Small Times magazine’s Innovator of the Year Award in 2006, the Nanotech Briefs Nano 50 Innovator Award in 2006, the Alan Berman Research Publication Award, Department of the Navy in 2006, the Southern Chemist of the Year Award from the American Chemical Society in 2005 and The Honda Innovation Award for Nanocars in 2005. Tour’s paper on Nanocars was the most highly accessed journal article of all American Chemical Society articles in 2005, and it was listed by LiveScience as the second most influential paper in all of science in 2005. Tour has won several other national awards including the National Science Foundation Presidential Young Investigator Award in Polymer Chemistry and the Office of Naval Research Young Investigator Award in Polymer Chemistry.
Give. Me. A. Break.

In a round about way you’re doing the nana nana nana thing. Or if you’re a bit older Hogan’s Heroes fan, “I know nothing, I see nothing.”

Anything to deflect from REAL expertise and evidence. Why do you do this? What ARE your motives?

I can’t believe you would even stoop to compare these two individuals.

Marcus and Morley, the two amigo deflectors extraordinaire.

Regards,
MG
Post Reply