"what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

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malkie
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by malkie »

My google-fu is not working, but perhaps someone here can help me out.

Reading the remarks about how there seems to be a callous disregard for the victims of abuse in the cases discussed on this thread brought to mind a statement that I think I am misremembering, or at least not remembering accurately enough for google to find.

Does anyone else (half-)remember a religious leader, when asked about child sexual abuse, saying that in an eternal perspective such an occurrence would be just like an adult having a dim memory of an unhappy afternoon in grade school?
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

dantana wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:27 pm
I had posted upthread something something about cutting the cult guys some slack. I take it back. My lack of due diligence caused me to not realize how bad the abuse was. My bad. Kill them all.
Here’s 300 pages of examples of Mormon sexual abuse cases:

http://www.hurley-law.com/wp-content/up ... 017-06.pdf

These mother******* have known for a very long time they’ve had systemic sexual abuse problems deeply embedded in their “church”. I dunno. Seeing Mental Asshole trolling over this issue instead of phoning his superiors to tell them he’ll be back when they get their crap together is sad. It’s very sad. MG doesn’t think a Mormon child rapist should go to prison, and that his “church” is cool with covering for him while he rapes more. This is bizarro world stuff, and I’m not gonna lie, it’s got me a little spunt. Top to bottom these Mormon men think so little of these babies that they send their rapists back to them to rape them some more.

I feel about as nauseated on the same level when Putin decided to murder, rape, and torture Ukrainians. It doesn’t make sense. I can’t wrap my mind around this. Like, I honestly believe if MG and the rest had their families assaulted in the same manner and the “church” covered it up, the former would roll with it. They’d put their organization ahead of justice and safety for their families. This is beyond cultish behavior. It’s a dereliction of righteousness and a complete abdication of integrity.
LDS George Tilson From 1966-2002 "the COP (Corporation of the President of the cojcolds) received several complaints..that Tilson was sexually abusing children within his ward. However, COP not only failed to do anything in response to these complaints, it actively concealed Tilson's sexual abuse from its members and secular authorities. Moreover, COP allowed Tilson to continue to hold the positions of High Priest and scout leader."
- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
Marcus
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Marcus »

malkie wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:45 pm
My google-fu is not working, but perhaps someone here can help me out.

Reading the remarks about how there seems to be a callous disregard for the victims of abuse in the cases discussed on this thread brought to mind a statement that I think I am misremembering, or at least not remembering accurately enough for google to find.

Does anyone else (half-)remember a religious leader, when asked about child sexual abuse, saying that in an eternal perspective such an occurrence would be just like an adult having a dim memory of an unhappy afternoon in grade school?
i remember a certain gymnast here suggesting his Mormon god let sexual predators be promoted to high office in his church so that they could be caught abusing children and be exposed, and thereby start the repentance process. For their benefit. Ignoring the damage to the child. It was pretty despicable.
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Marcus »

i found the discussion. Here's the background:
_I have a question wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:30 pm
Yes, yet another example of why one on one interviews with minors conducted by Church Leaders should be immediately ended. No more excuses.
A second counselor in a bishopric in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was arrested Monday after reportedly sexually abusing a girl multiple times.
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/c ... 1a697.html
And here is the gymnast, a devout lds follower, explaining why his god might have let it happen:
_mentalgymnast wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:44 pm
Craig Paxton wrote:
Oh you heathens are all the same, What you are failing to take in to account is that his Bishop received a spiritual witness from God to have this man called as his counselor.
He may have. He may not have. If he did, then it goes to show...and not for the first time in history...that God calls upon the weak things of the world in order to accomplish His purposes. If, as the first article seems to be saying, the fellow may not have been in the Bishopric at the time of his misbehavior then it might be that the calling brought him to a position/place of being 'outed'. That's a good thing. As long, of course, as he hasn't been misbehaving in the meantime. It's hard to know all of the variables/factors involved. The fact is, it's good that he was caught and that he now has a chance to repent of his past misbehaviors.
Craig Paxton wrote: God had obviously already taken this man's pedophilia history into account prior to sending that special witness to the Bishop.
That's a possibility, if indeed the counselor was called through direct inspiration/revelation. That doesn't always happen, I would guess. But again, if he was called through inspiration, it might be that God...knowing the end from the beginning...knew how things were going to pan out. And the fact is, this man now has been brought to justice and also has an opportunity to repent. Not to say that there hasn't been damage done along the way.
that's how bizarrely the lds mindset has to twist to justify how their leadership works.
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malkie
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

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The problem of evil? Nothing to worry about - god's will not only tolerates but requires the suffering of the innocent.
Alma 14:11 wrote:“The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.”
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MG 2.0
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:35 pm
Wow. It's incredibly difficult to reconcile this accounting with the assertion from an lds member, stated earlier in the thread, that "...what is needed…and I give the church the benefit of a doubt on this…is that there is continual need of fine tuning..."

No. This is way past "fine tuning." And there is no "benefit of the doubt" that would reconcile this.
That would be me. Earlier today I was reading over at By Common Consent:

https://bycommonconsent.com/2022/08/05/ ... out-abuse/

and found this contribution along with some others that you can scroll through to be helpful. I still stand by the comments I’ve made but also realize that the goal of stopping child abuse has not been met. I do think that when all is said and done, this is the goal. The problem is that the church is placing too much emphasis on protecting everyone…including the institution of the church itself… that at times victims are getting the short shrift.

That’s got to change. Sooner the better. Victims first at ALL costs.

Regards,
MG
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Morley »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:36 am
I still stand by the comments I’ve made but also realize that the goal of stopping child abuse has not been met. I do think that when all is said and done, this is the goal. The problem is that the church is placing too much emphasis on protecting everyone…including the institution of the church itself… that at times victims are getting the short shrift.

That’s got to change. Sooner the better. Victims first at ALL costs.
It should not have taken this long for you to say this.
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by IHAQ »

This is from the Church's website on abuse resources...
The following behaviors are against the teachings of the gospel. While not all of them would be defined as abuse, they are all harmful behaviors.

Grooming—Grooming occurs when someone befriends or attempts to create an emotional attachment and build trust with another person with the intention of sexually abusing that person. The intended victim is most often a child. Grooming behaviors can include giving gifts or favors, requests for time alone, talking about sexual topics, or showing pornography to or initiating physical contact with a child. Grooming can also occur over the internet and through a child’s mobile device.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/get ... r?lang=eng

The Church recognises here that a man spending time alone with a minor, talking about sexual topics, is a harmful behaviour and against the teachings of the gospel. So why are Bishops still conducting worthiness interviews with minors?
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:36 am
Marcus wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:35 pm
Wow. It's incredibly difficult to reconcile this accounting with the assertion from an lds member, stated earlier in the thread, that "...what is needed…and I give the church the benefit of a doubt on this…is that there is continual need of fine tuning..."

No. This is way past "fine tuning." And there is no "benefit of the doubt" that would reconcile this.
That would be me. Earlier today I was reading over at By Common Consent:

https://bycommonconsent.com/2022/08/05/ ... out-abuse/

and found this contribution along with some others that you can scroll through to be helpful. I still stand by the comments I’ve made but also realize that the goal of stopping child abuse has not been met. I do think that when all is said and done, this is the goal. The problem is that the church is placing too much emphasis on protecting everyone…including the institution of the church itself… that at times victims are getting the short shrift.

That’s got to change. Sooner the better. Victims first at ALL costs.

Regards,
MG
So, you’re lying again, and have no intention of pushing for change from within.

This is the ‘human garbage’ element people don’t understand about Mormons. Church-going Mormon men will do nothing. They’ll pay a little lip service to protecting the victims, but do literally nothing. They’ll just wait until this blows over so they can maintain the status quo. Look at my link upthread. These animals have known since the 50’s they have a rapist problem within their ranks. For the last 70+ years they’ve known, and they’ve sent these rapists back knowing they’re habitual rapists using the cover the “church” has given them to keep raping.

If you’re a Mormon and you keep giving your time and money to this organization, knowing that this organizations institutionally covers for rapists, you’re complicit. There’s no getting around this. You either know rape is serious enough that a Mormon rapist goes to jail or not. Anything short of a Mormon rapist going to jail for their crimes is complicity. No more word games. No more furrowing your brow and clucking out a few words of sympathy. Demand change from within. Stop going to church until this is changed. Stop giving them money until they understand that not sending a rapist to jail won’t work any more.

If you’re a Mormon, this is the course of action that must be taken. You have to pressure these Mormon men who don’t think family rape reaches the bar of seriousness to serve time. You bear this burden because you actively support this or not. It is what it is.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Dr Exiled »

I think the problem is that the Church leaders can't admit that they collectively have made mistakes and huge ones on this and in other areas. They believe they need to keep up the false pretenses to retain power. This needs to change. There are too many instances of leadership roulette and bad leadership choices to continue to believe that there is inspiration in these callings. Also, the members need to realize reality as well and feel free to point out mistakes in their leaders when that happens, and it does, and probably at the same rate as in any organization. There is nothing special here. Time for the Church to come down off the mountain and join the human race and get this solved.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
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