More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

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IHAQ
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by IHAQ »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:48 pm
Looks like another instance of no there there.

I’m still curious as to why Mr. Chung even started this thread.

You figure, maybe, that somethin’ has got to stick if you keep throwing crap out there?

Regards,
MG
The first time Taran Trinnaman was called the N-word at Brigham Young University, he was walking to a pharmacy to get cold medicine for himself and his roommates.

They were too sick to go out, so he offered to run. He was just about to there, stepping off the curb to the crosswalk signal near the duck pond on campus, he said, when a car sped through the light and nearly hit him.

“Get off the road, n-----,” he recalls the driver shouting at him.

As the passengers inside the car laughed, he stumbled back. Trinnaman said he couldn’t get a license plate number, but he remembers seeing the blue blur of BYU T-shirts as they drove away.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/byu-s ... r-AA12cbV8
Trinnaman and other students of color and alumni at BYU who spoke to The Salt Lake Tribune all recounted similar experiences with being called slurs by classmates — casually while running errands, in the middle of class or shouted at them in passing.

“It’s just so commonplace at BYU,” said Eleni López, a Latina student at the school. “I think every student of color here has a story like that.”
“We have all been Rachel,” said Kylee Shepherd, president of BYU’s Black Student Union and a member of the Black Menaces, who are using social media to try to address racism at the university. “And you might not believe us. We might not have what you’d consider sufficient evidence.”

But, she added, “our experiences, our voices should matter. That is proof. And we know what’s really happening here, the names we’ve been called.”

López said she’s had white students tell her the only reason she was accepted at BYU and the only reason she got a scholarship was because of the color of her skin. Then they’ll laugh it off like it was a joke, she added; “But it’s not funny.”

Shepherd recounted people on campus touching her hair without asking, questioning why it was so curly. They’ve also asked her why she “dresses like she’s white” but have also told her “not to act so Black.”
A lot of the racism they experience at BYU, the students say, is intertwined with beliefs connected to the LDS Church. Trinnaman said a white student in one of his classes argued that he should be able to say the N-word because he served a proselytizing mission for the faith in a Spanish-speaking country. In another class, Trinnaman said, a different white student defended reading the Bible to say that Black skin was a curse.

López said she and other students of color have similarly been labeled “Lamanites.” That’s considered an offensive term that comes from the Book of Mormon, describing a group of people damned by God, with the scripture saying it caused “a skin of blackness to come upon them,” making them “loathsome unto thy people.”

One boy also told López, she recalled, that after serving in a Latino-majority country that he developed “Lamanite-ism,” where he found women of color more attractive because there weren’t as many white women around.

“That’s just extremely painful to hear,” she said. “And we’re hearing things like this every day.”
López said she has heard racist comments her whole life growing up in the church, including as a kid in primary classes. Grace Soelberg, who is biracial and graduated from BYU in fall 2021, has said the same, saying she first heard the N-word from other kids calling her that in church. The slurs continued through her college classes in Provo, she said.

To doubt that those experiences are real and to suggest that racism doesn’t exist at BYU and within the LDS Church is not ignorant — it’s delusional, López said. It adds to the pain, she said, and lets the problem continue.
Just this year, clips of a speech from Brad Wilcox, a BYU professor, went viral after Wilcox said those who question why the priesthood ban wasn’t lifted 1978 “should be asking why did the whites and other races have to wait until 1829.”

Wilcox later apologized, but the school did not take any action to discipline him and he remains on staff.

Soelberg said she wonders whether people who say there isn’t racism at BYU forget about those headlines or if they actively chose to ignore them.
Well MG...Did you forget or are you actively choosing to ignore?
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

From USAToday:
Hannah White, a senior forward for USC who was one of the players who kneeled at BYU, said she didn't hear fans use the n-word but about four of her teammates told her they did. She said players closer to the other end of the starters lineup were those who reported hearing the slur.

“I know it was definitely said,'' White told USA TODAY Sports. "I just didn’t hear it. I think when multiple teammates come up and they’re talking about it, I don’t think they would make that up."
Huh? People make things up all the time for all sorts of reasons. Hell, we had eleven witnesses that assured the golden plates were real.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Kishkumen
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by Kishkumen »

On the other hand, Mormonism has provided ample opportunities for people to break out of an ethnically homogeneous world. Consider missions to countries around the globe, where people of all races hear the LDS message and are welcomed into the fold through baptism. Some of those people find their way to "Zion" and add to the diversity of Utah's more urbanized areas. Not a few LDS families are quite ethnically diverse. My extended family has Native American, African American, Polynesian, and Asian members, all of whom were brought together through the LDS community. Where the GOP takes a hard stance against immigration from "brown" countries, the LDS Church supports immigration.

It is true that the LDS Church is in many ways a "white" institution, but I also see elements of LDS teaching and LDS society that cut in the opposite direction. Some of Mormonism is very outward looking and opens its members to a diverse world that is welcomed into the LDS Church in return.

I say this not to excuse people who are racist or awful incidents where people express racial hatred or act on it in other ways. Nor do I neglect the fact that the LDS Church remains very structurally and demographically white. But I think it is also inaccurate to portray Mormonism as nothing but racist. The LDS Church is an institution that struggles with a past that is implicated in racism but that nevertheless holds out some promise of evolving away from that racist past and moving into a more open and diverse future.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
IHAQ
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by IHAQ »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:11 pm
The LDS Church is an institution that struggles with a past that is implicated in racism but that nevertheless holds out some promise of evolving away from that racist past and moving into a more open and diverse future.
Institutional racism in the Church is not in the past. It's in the present, right there in the canon.
21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
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Kishkumen
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by Kishkumen »

IHAQ wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:31 pm
Institutional racism in the Church is not in the past. It's in the present, right there in the canon.
I love it when someone on this board argues against a position I never took.

For the record, I never said institutional racism was in the LDS Church's rearview mirror. Those who want to read what I actually wrote should read my post, not IHAQ's baffling misinterpretation of it.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
IHAQ
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by IHAQ »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:38 pm
IHAQ wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:31 pm
Institutional racism in the Church is not in the past. It's in the present, right there in the canon.
I love it when someone on this board argues against a position I never took.

For the record, I never said institutional racism was in the LDS Church's rearview mirror. Those who want to read what I actually wrote should read my post, not IHAQ's baffling misinterpretation of it.
You could have responded with "IHAQ, I wasn't suggesting that the Church's racism was all in the past, what I meant was...". But no - sanctimony was what you went with. <shrug>
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Gadianton
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by Gadianton »

At the same time, the Church explicitly blotted out an article of faith, scripture, that said to gather Israel. The brethren freaked out and stopped SLC from becoming a multicultural hub. And so while it's bringing in diverse converts onto the membership rolls, they are to stay in their areas and build their areas. And so what it looks like, and nobody has access to the books to say one way or another, is that white SLC headquarters is getting richer and richer, and enriching the privileged families with the right last names -- Church headquarters is metaphorically one of the apologists' hand carried chariots with white chariot occupants and colored carriers, the carriers being the vassal states sending tithes back to buy SLC for real estate. It's a similar model to Putin's Russia, as I understand it. Although in the case of Russia, there are geographic barriers that would make democratizing difficult. The Church is more of a virtual empire and so the real barriers that there are are upheld by doctrine that maintains Zion is fragmented.
MG 2.0
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by MG 2.0 »

IHAQ wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:04 am
Well MG...Did you forget or are you actively choosing to ignore?
I haven’t seen any evidence that there was any racist activity involved in the incident referenced in the opening post.

No there there.

The other links and/or quotes you’re throwing up would need to be independently verified contextually as having merit before I would make a judgement one way or the other.

I don’t believe everything I see or hear nowadays. On the other hand I think the Black Menaces have helped thus far in getting ‘on the ground’ information out there that should be taken under consideration and not ignored.

I feel pain for the young black women at BYU or other institutions that might find themselves ostracized as far as dating and social involvement.

A few years ago I was assigned to minister to an interracial family. Wonderful family. We truly loved and appreciated each other. Husband was in the Bishopric and wife actively involved in the ward. Kids highly respected and accepted to the best of my knowledge.

Not all gloom and doom. I’m assuming this family and my experiences with knowing them were not unique.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by MG 2.0 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:38 pm
IHAQ wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:31 pm
Institutional racism in the Church is not in the past. It's in the present, right there in the canon.
I love it when someone on this board argues against a position I never took.

For the record, I never said institutional racism was in the LDS Church's rearview mirror. Those who want to read what I actually wrote should read my post, not IHAQ's baffling misinterpretation of it.
I hope you can now understand what I go through. Not all the time. But often enough.

Regards,
MG
doubtingthomas
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Re: More Allegations Of Racial Slurs By BYU Against Visiting Soccer Team

Post by doubtingthomas »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:08 pm


I haven’t seen any evidence that there was any racist activity involved in the incident referenced in the opening post.
Is it possible that God was once a racist? God bless you brother MG.
Last edited by doubtingthomas on Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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