Faithful Mormon asks how he can be heard by church leaders

[drumdude]

This seems like a sincere post from someone who is struggling with how they can be a part of the restored gospel while sometimes getting rubbed the wrong way by certain aspects of the organization. This is hard. The person seems like they are at a loss and are not sure what to do. Yes, letter writing normally gets routed back down to local leaders. The individual may feel like the word doesn't get past the stake president, but it does. I haven't been a stake president, so I don't know too many details, but stake presidents take things to their coordinating council and discuss them with area authorities which get passed onto area presidencies and up to other general authorities. If a stake president feels like multiple members are struggling with certain issues in general, I'm sure there is a way they can pass that along. I know personally that specific cases also get passed along. I was once asked by our area authority to start up a correspondence with a member in a completely different coordinating counsel (on the other side of California) who was struggling with a particular issue regarding their testimony. I guess the area authority felt like with my background in science I could help. Unfortunately, as many of you know, there usually isn't a silver bullet for these sorts of struggles. I was able to help a little, but not a ton.

It may be that we could do better at letting members know they are heard. I know these sorts of things get passed up to general authorities, but there may be no feedback to the members. They may not know that their concerns were heard, discussed, and acted upon. Of course, it may be that this happens most often in aggregate and just doesn't have much traceability back to individual members….

Thank you for your comments, but they are not believable. After your “severity softening” comments in the thread on child abuse, where you clearly stated many things that you could not support with evidence and also minimized many serious issues on the basis of no information but only an apparent obligation to support your church even when the data clearly showed it was insupportable, your credibility is very, very low.

I like to give posters a reputational reset between threads unless they are just egregiously consistent like Atlantic Mike.

[Marcus]

Thank you for your comments, but they are not believable. After your “severity softening” comments in the thread on child abuse, where you clearly stated many things that you could not support with evidence and also minimized many serious issues on the basis of no information but only an apparent obligation to support your church even when the data clearly showed it was insupportable, your credibility is very, very low.

I like to give posters a reputational reset between threads unless they are just egregiously consistent like Atlantic Mike.

Fair enough, although his statements in the other thread really fell apart.

However, I'm willing to wait for him to share the evidence behind his statements in this second thread topic.

[Rollo Redux]

The COB regularly monitors this board.

You really think so? Are they that paranoid?

[Marcus]

Drumdude makes a good point, so i'm willing to go back and consider the comment:

...Yes, letter writing normally gets routed back down to local leaders. The individual may feel like the word doesn't get past the stake president, but it does. I haven't been a stake president, so I don't know too many details, but stake presidents take things to their coordinating council and discuss them with area authorities which get passed onto area presidencies and up to other general authorities.

If you don't know many details and haven't been a stake president, how do you know this?

If a stake president feels like multiple members are struggling with certain issues in general, I'm sure there is a way they can pass that along.

What do you know that makes you sure of this?

It may be that we could do better at letting members know they are heard. I know these sorts of things get passed up to general authorities, but there may be no feedback to the members.

Same question, how do you "know" this?

They may not know that their concerns were heard, discussed, and acted upon. Of course, it may be that this happens most often in aggregate and just doesn't have much traceability back to individual members.

A good theory, but again, do you have any evidence or is this your guess, based on your beliefs?

[Rollo Redux]

Elder Holland said that they have prayed to tears over the issue. It's not falling on deaf ears, they just don't have more light and knowledge to provide right now.

Wasn't that in the same speech from Holland where he advised to pull out the muskets on these bastards?

I don't know, maybe it's the mixed messaging they're sending to the members that is causing the problems?

I think it was two different speeches. I remember laughing out loud at his “prayed to tears” comment because it was said after his “muskets” talk. I sincerely believe Holland hasn’t shed one tear over any LGBTQ person or issue.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

See the image above? What do you see in it? I see the truthfulness of the bhagavad gita. If you look intently enough you’ll see Arjuna receiving wisdom from Krishna, which stands as a shining example of the Hindu pantheon. Don’t take my words lightly or in passing. You’ve been witness to the Divine Truth, and as such you’re now obligated to read the Mahabharata to know the truth of this world and of those that rule over it. Failure to do so will result in your eternal castigation by Yama.

- Doc

[JohnW]

This seems like a sincere post from someone who is struggling with how they can be a part of the restored gospel while sometimes getting rubbed the wrong way by certain aspects of the organization. This is hard. The person seems like they are at a loss and are not sure what to do. Yes, letter writing normally gets routed back down to local leaders. The individual may feel like the word doesn't get past the stake president, but it does. I haven't been a stake president, so I don't know too many details, but stake presidents take things to their coordinating council and discuss them with area authorities which get passed onto area presidencies and up to other general authorities. If a stake president feels like multiple members are struggling with certain issues in general, I'm sure there is a way they can pass that along. I know personally that specific cases also get passed along. I was once asked by our area authority to start up a correspondence with a member in a completely different coordinating counsel (on the other side of California) who was struggling with a particular issue regarding their testimony. I guess the area authority felt like with my background in science I could help. Unfortunately, as many of you know, there usually isn't a silver bullet for these sorts of struggles. I was able to help a little, but not a ton.

It may be that we could do better at letting members know they are heard. I know these sorts of things get passed up to general authorities, but there may be no feedback to the members. They may not know that their concerns were heard, discussed, and acted upon. Of course, it may be that this happens most often in aggregate and just doesn't have much traceability back to individual members….

Thank you for your comments, but they are not believable. After your “severity softening” comments in the thread on child abuse, where you clearly stated many things that you could not support with evidence and also minimized many serious issues on the basis of no information but only an apparent obligation to support your church even when the data clearly showed it was insupportable, your credibility is very, very low.

It's ok Marcus, I don't expect people to believe me all the time. We as humans just aren't that good at changing our beliefs, especially on the internet. I'm not really here to try to convince anyone of anything anyway. I guess I just sort of enjoy listening and learning from people who are also rationally minded. Sure, I will give my perspective, but I don't really expect much in return. I will go ahead and answer your questions from a couple posts down, but the answers aren't rock-solid evidence of some water tight argument I'm building on in order to convince everyone here the church is true. It is just my perspective.

[JohnW]

Drumdude makes a good point, so i'm willing to go back and consider the comment:

...Yes, letter writing normally gets routed back down to local leaders. The individual may feel like the word doesn't get past the stake president, but it does. I haven't been a stake president, so I don't know too many details, but stake presidents take things to their coordinating council and discuss them with area authorities which get passed onto area presidencies and up to other general authorities.

If you don't know many details and haven't been a stake president, how do you know this?

I know stake presidents can take difficult cases to coordinating council because multiple times while I was bishop I asked the stake president to do so. Usually, the stake president just emails the area authority designated to our stake and receives back an answer over email. There were definitely a couple cases where a member's particular issue was rather difficult and was discussed in coordinating council. The part to which I lack details is how exactly this is done. I have never been to a coordinating counsel, so I don't know if there is time in these meetings for stake presidents to bring up issues for general discussion or if stake presidents get one-on-one time with the area authority to discuss issues. I could imagine either scenario pretty easily.

If a stake president feels like multiple members are struggling with certain issues in general, I'm sure there is a way they can pass that along.

What do you know that makes you sure of this?

See above. I never personally asked my stake president to take an issue that multiple members were struggling with to the area, but he took individual cases to the area. I would assume issues with multiple people would also be common.

It may be that we could do better at letting members know they are heard. I know these sorts of things get passed up to general authorities, but there may be no feedback to the members.

Same question, how do you "know" this?

Again, I had at least one case, that I can recall, which was difficult enough to be taken from the area authority to the area presidency, some of whom are general authorities. I don't have first-hand experience with a case that was sent to the twelve or the first presidency, but It seems completely reasonable that this would be the case. (This doesn't include situations which are common but contact with the twelve or first presidency are required. I had a few of those.) I just never came across a difficult issue that couldn't be answered by the area. I did get a few contacts from Salt Lake about members who had contacted other general authorities or had some other interactions with the larger church. These cases were passed down to the stake and ward to see how we could help the members.

They may not know that their concerns were heard, discussed, and acted upon. Of course, it may be that this happens most often in aggregate and just doesn't have much traceability back to individual members.

A good theory, but again, do you have any evidence or is this your guess, based on your beliefs?

This wasn't really a theory. This was me thinking aloud how we as a church might do better. Yes, cases are taken to the coordinating council and guidance is received back, but that may not be clearly obvious to the regular member. I was just wondering if there was a way we could let members know better this process so they don't feel like their concerns get dropped into a bottomless comment box.

[IHAQ]

Coordinating Council
The Area Presidency establishes coordinating councils. Each council includes specified stakes and missions in an area. The Area Presidency assigns an Area Seventy to lead each council.
Stake and mission presidents attend coordinating council meetings. Temple presidents whose temple districts are within the boundaries of the coordinating council are invited to attend when practical.
Others may attend part or all of the meetings when needed and when invited by the Area Seventy. Area Seventies consider distance, family circumstances, and travel when making these invitations.
The purpose of coordinating council meetings is to help stake, mission, and temple presidents exercise priesthood keys in unity. Together they counsel about and coordinate efforts to help members in their responsibilities for the work of salvation and exaltation.
The Area Seventy convenes a coordinating council meeting soon after each quarterly area council meeting. Additional meetings may be held when needed.
The Area Seventy directs the meetings and facilitates the discussion. All who attend counsel together as equal participants.
In these meetings, participants:
Seek revelation about how best to implement the teachings and direction of the First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and Area Presidency.
Coordinate the work of salvation and exaltation.
Counsel together about the temporal and spiritual welfare of members and how to help them become true followers of Jesus Christ.
Instruct and edify one another.
Coordinate multistake matters. These matters may include activities (see 20.3.3), efforts to build self-reliance and give community service (see 22.10.1), emergency response efforts (see 22.9.1.3), and finances and audits (see 34.7).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... p?lang=eng
No mention of the coordinating council being a conduit for information gathering and passing on to an Apostle.

[Philo Sofee]

See the image above? What do you see in it? I see the truthfulness of the bhagavad gita. If you look intently enough you’ll see Arjuna receiving wisdom from Krishna, which stands as a shining example of the Hindu pantheon. Don’t take my words lightly or in passing. You’ve been witness to the Divine Truth, and as such you’re now obligated to read the Mahabharata to know the truth of this world and of those that rule over it. Failure to do so will result in your eternal castigation by Yama.

- Doc

That is really, really a stinkin groovy piece of art Doc, thanks for showing it!