BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by IHAQ »

There must be a few wards around where the (untrained volunteer) Bishop's opinion is now the determining factor in employment for a fair proportion of his congregation. That cannot be healthy. Which Church employee would now be comfortable to share faith doubts or questions with their Bishop?
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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by IHAQ »

One of the more abhorrent aspects of these incidents, is that the people are being fired by people they don't know, and that they aren't being told why other than it's an ecclesiastical problem. Any corporation has a right to dismiss an employee for any number of reasons. But only the worst employers would treat employees in such circumstances with an anonymous phone call and vacuum of explanation. It's a very unchristian way to treat an employee. Not only that, these people don't have a chance to correct whatever it was that is amiss with their membership because they don't know what the problem is. Were they warned about it? Were they given a chance to explain? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like they were summarily dismissed without warning, without reasoning, and without the right of appeal. Are there zero employment rights in America?

If they aren't suitable for Church employment because of something amiss ecclesiastically, then surely they should have their temple recommend rescinded and a disciplinary council called? Oh wait, they can't do that because nobody knows what the problem is. The LDS Stasi ECO isn't for sharing that piece of information, it's secret sacred.
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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by IHAQ »

The new commissioner of the Church Educational System will deliver a devotional for the first time Tuesday at Brigham Young University, the flagship school of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Elder Clark G. Gilbert became a General Authority Seventy of the church in April 2021 and was named the church commissioner of education in May.

In August, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles charged Elder Gilbert with working alongside BYU President Kevin Worthen to evaluate the university’s progress toward goals set for its second century by late church President Spencer W. Kimball.
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/2/7/ ... on-tuesday
Elder Gilbert’s devotional comes as BYU is seeking to renew its accreditation in April and just two weeks after the church announced that all Latter-day Saints hired at its colleges and universities will be required to hold a temple recommend, which provides entrance into the faith’s temples. To receive a recommend, Latter-day Saints affirm every two years to church leaders that they believe in God, sustain church leaders, actively attend church, pay tithing and live the Word of Wisdom, which proscribes alcohol and coffee.
Elder Holland is pulling the strings on these dismissals, with Gilbert his obedient jackbooted servant. That cannot come as a surprise to anyone given his anti-LGBQT outbursts of late (the vehement criticism of the gay valedictorian, the rallying musket fire speech, his criticism of the rainbow Y incident, the various rumoured chastisements of the BYU faculties). It seems he's finally found someone who'll cleanse BYU of LGBQT sympathisers.
Last edited by IHAQ on Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Philo Sofee »

Dr. Sunstoned wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:03 am
Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:19 am
Well.....I mean....... looking on the bright side, Shulem and Consiglieri and I can now apply for jobs that have opened up....
I knew there had to be a silver lining somewhere. Blessed day!
:lol:
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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

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Michael Austin, a BYU alumnus and vice president at the University of Evansville, a private Methodist college in Indiana, thinks Bergin’s guess about her termination is right. And he said it appears that BYU might be trying to crack down on more faculty whom leaders see as stepping out of line, especially when it comes to the LGBTQ community.

“There have been a lot of indications to those of us who try to understand what’s going on at BYU,” Austin said. “It’s like watching the Kremlin during the Cold War sometimes. But there have been signs.”

Austin said he started noticing the trend with the speech on campus from Latter-day Saint apostle Jeffrey Holland last August, one of several recent events at BYU that have drawn national attention. Holland criticized faculty members and students who challenge the faith’s teachings on same-sex marriage. He said they should instead take up their intellectual “muskets” to defend “the doctrine of the family and ... marriage as the union of a man and a woman.”

Following that, BYU made stricter its policy on protesting after a group of students lit up the “Y” on the mountain above the school in rainbow colors to speak out against how those who are LGBTQ are treated.

Now, any display is against the rules where “two or more people gather to raise awareness about, or express a viewpoint on, an issue or cause.” A spokesperson for the school said that could include two people wearing rainbow items or two professors putting rainbow signs on their doors.

And then last month, the school announced that new Latter-day Saint faculty would need to have a current temple recommend — a card issued by local church leaders attesting to the holder’s adherence to the faith’s principles and practices — in order to work at BYU. That more closely ties employment with being a committed member of the church.

To Austin, the moves appear to be strengthening “some legal protections” for removing faculty. “It all looks to be part of a pattern,” he said. “And Sue Bergin is part of that pattern.”
https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2 ... -says-she/

BYU is an intolerant, homophobic institution. And there's a hate-filled cleansing underway.
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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Moksha »

IHAQ wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:11 am
Elder Holland is pulling the strings on these dismissals, with Gilbert his obedient jackbooted servant. That cannot come as a surprise to anyone given his anti-LGBQT outbursts of late (the vehement criticism of the gay valedictorian, the rallying musket fire speech, his criticism of the rainbow Y incident, the various rumoured chastisements of the BYU faculties). It seems he's finally found someone who'll cleanse BYU of LGBQT sympathisers.
In a truly just world, a homophobic cleansing by Mormon musket fire would be sufficient for the Big 12 to punt BYU.
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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Res Ipsa »

IHAQ wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:24 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:49 am


Different context. The Bishop referred to a conversation in the hallway — not a counseling session. Also, The instructor was requesting an endorsement from the Bishop to use to meet an employment requirement, which doesn’t involve the same privacy expectations as a confession or a counseling session.
From the article:
It turns out that Buswell had recently opened up to his bishop, someone he saw as a peer and a friend, about concerns he had around the church’s policies regarding the LGBTQ community. The conversation had been a casual hallway chat that, according to Buswell, ended with him reassuring his bishop that he felt “confident I’ll figure it out, and it’s not a big deal.”
That’s not a request for endorsement, that’s a ward member seeking private counsel from their Bishop. It’s arguable that the location, and lack of formality are immaterial.
Simply wrong. What you just quoted establishes that Bishop did not breach any confidentiality obligation. It was a "casual hallway chat" according to the the member. Nowhere does the member himself say anything close to "private" or "seeking ... counsel." The member also specifically described the conversation as one with a "friend" or "peer," not as any sort of pastoral counseling. The member doesn't indicate in any way that he believes the Bishop betrayed anything that he considered confidential. That's open and shut, regardless of how you feel about LDS leaders in general.

I didn't say that the conversation was an application. The disclosure was made as part of the member's employment application. Did you take the time to look for what the member consented to as a condition of his employment at BYU-Idaho? Because it's not just the member's expectation of privacy at the time of the conversation that matters. It's also the circumstances surrounding his employment.

So let's look.

One applies for employment at BYU-Idaho over the internet. Here's a link to the specific page for an online adjunct in the Sociology Department. https://employment.byui.net/postings/17470. Scroll down and read what an applicant consents to:
* As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I must hold and be worthy to hold a current temple recommend to be eligible to receive an offer of employment from OLL Services LLC. As part of the employment consideration process, I authorize the Ecclesiastical Clearance Office of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the ECO) to verify with my local ecclesiastical leaders whether I hold and am worthy to hold a current temple recommend.

I agree.
I am not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

* As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I also accept as a condition of ongoing employment that I will hold and be worthy to hold a current temple recommend, with the understanding that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may adjust the criteria for a temple recommend from time to time.

I agree.
I am not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

* As part of the hiring process, and before OLL Services LLC may extend an offer of employment, the ECO will contact ecclesiastical leaders of applicants for employment who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to confirm ecclesiastical worthiness and eligibility for employment in the Church Educational System. In addition, the ECO will have ongoing contact with ecclesiastical leaders of all personnel who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to confirm ecclesiastical worthiness. I authorize the foregoing contacts.

I agree.
I am not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

* As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I understand my current and former ecclesiastical leaders and any general authorities with whom I may interview will discuss with the ECO my ecclesiastical worthiness and my eligibility for employment with OLL Services LLC, including a discussion of matters a priesthood leader would otherwise keep confidential (see Church General Handbook Sections 31.3 and 32.4.4, as they may be modified or amended) to the extent the confidential matters relate to the standards of employment established for personnel working within the Church Educational System, as they exist from time to time. I authorize the foregoing contacts and disclosures.

I agree.
I am not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

* The ECO clearance is separate from ecclesiastical endorsements provided by local ecclesiastical leaders. An ecclesiastical endorsement provided by a local ecclesiastical leader is one part of the ECO clearance. The ECO also considers factors such as public positions or statements related to leaders, doctrine, and policies of, and an individual’s overall activity in, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The ECO indicates to the university whether applicants for employment and personnel are cleared or not cleared ecclesiastically. Candidates for employment in nonstudent positions at the university who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must receive a clearance from the ECO to be eligible to be considered for employment. As part of the clearance process the ECO contacts current and former ecclesiastical leaders concerning the ecclesiastical worthiness of candidates for employment in nonstudent positions who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ. The ECO clearance process for new hires verifies whether the individual holds and is worthy to hold a temple recommend and also assesses historical and current activity in The Church of Jesus Christ, religious behavior, and support for the teachings, practices, and leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ. Applicants for full-time faculty and certain administrative positions also interview with a general authority of the Church of Jesus Christ as part of the ecclesiastical clearance process. The ECO indicates to the university only whether individuals are cleared or not cleared ecclesiastically to be considered for employment by the university. I authorize the foregoing contacts, disclosures, and assessments.

I agree.
I am not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
[Emphasis added.]

That's a damn solid example of informed consent and express waiver of confidentiality.

The Bishop did nothing wrong, let alone something on which to base a damages lawsuit against him.

The leadership in Salt Lake that appears to have decided to covertly purge gay-friendly faculty at its educational institutions is an entirely different matter.
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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by IHAQ »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:08 pm
The Bishop did nothing wrong, let alone something on which to base a damages lawsuit against him.
Im sure you’re right about there being no legal case to answer for the Bishop. But I’d argue that passing on a casual hallway conversation, during which the member opened up a little, as part of a formal employment reference is definitely doing something wrong (wilfully or stupidly).
The leadership in Salt Lake that appears to have decided to covertly purge gay-friendly faculty at its educational institutions is an entirely different matter.
The ECO is the vehicle being used to carry out that cleansing, and Bishops are now its hallway spies.

In a separate point, to which you may know the facts on. It seems that being a non member BYU employee is subject to less criteria. So we have an unfair employment practice that disfavours the Church member. Is that allowable under Utah employment law (if there is such a thing in Utah)?
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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Res Ipsa »

IHAQ wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:19 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:08 pm
The Bishop did nothing wrong, let alone something on which to base a damages lawsuit against him.
Im sure you’re right about there being no legal case to answer for the Bishop. But I’d argue that passing on a casual hallway conversation, during which the member opened up a little, as part of a formal employment reference is definitely doing something wrong (wilfully or stupidly).
The leadership in Salt Lake that appears to have decided to covertly purge gay-friendly faculty at its educational institutions is an entirely different matter.
The ECO is the vehicle being used to carry out that cleansing, and Bishops are now its hallway spies.

In a separate point, to which you may know the facts on. It seems that being a non member BYU employee is subject t :D o less criteria. So we have an unfair employment practice that disfavours the Church member. Is that allowable under Utah employment law (if there is such a thing in Utah)?
I don't know the precise answer to your question, but I'll take a look when I get a chance. In general in the U.S., religious organizations are permitted to discriminate on the basis of religion in ways the private employers are not allowed to do. Prohibitions against discrimination in employment can exist in employment statutes or anti-discrimination statutes -- it varies from state to state. Off the top of my head, I'm not 100% sure whether Idaho law, Utah law or both would apply to a Utah employer and an Idaho employee. And there are relevant federal laws that could apply.

I'll report back with what I find. :)
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Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by 2bizE »

I wonder what affect this has on current and future Bishops. They now are responsible for getting members fired, who may then rely on church welfare. The unpaid job of bishop just got real. I wonder if many will Quit or no longer race or the calling?
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