Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

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TwoCumorahFraud
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Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by TwoCumorahFraud »

Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman


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Libraries with L.E. Hills books:

1918
A short work on the Popol vuh and the traditional history of the ancient Americans, by Ixt-lil-xochitl
https://www.worldcat.org/title/16665243

1919
Historical data from ancient records and ruins of Mexico and Central America
https://www.worldcat.org/title/5389611

1924
New light on American archaeology
https://www.worldcat.org/title/16407215

Scanned on line:

https://tinyurl.com/LEHills1918book
https://tinyurl.com/LEHills1919book
https://tinyurl.com/LEHills1924book (missing the map)

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Gadianton
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by Gadianton »

The reference I read yesterday from the D-News article cited Hills, and cited Sorenson as using one of Hills' maps. Did Sorenson cite Hills in his work or was Ash filling in blanks?

I'm trying to understand what the problem is -- is the problem that Mormon apologists built on Hills work without giving credit where credit is due, or is the problem that they built on Hills work, period?

Obviously, the LGT is an apostate theory and Meldrum is for the most part right, especially in regards to the location of the Hill Cumorah and the epic final battle. He's also right in spirit, that much of the epic history had to occur in North America because this is the promised land where Joseph Smith would be born, where the Saints would build the New Jerusalem, and so on. Joseph Smith was not joking about Zelph, he was deadly serious, and you can't really believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet and a seer and believe that he was wrong about Book of Mormon Geography.
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TwoCumorahFraud
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by TwoCumorahFraud »

They not not only cite Hills, but H.A. Stebbins. Hills quotes Stebbins in his 1924 book about the Two Cumorah idea.

Look in The Saints’ Herald, March 15, 1911 for an article called “Cumorah Hill.”

In the very first paragraph Stebbins states he changes his mind about the location of Cumorah from New York to Central America. Then he gives arguments which have been used by Sorenson, only rephrased and expanded upon.

This was all due to a hemispheric map as official RLDS doctrine. Zarahemla and the Land of Nephi were in South America south of the narrow neck (Central America) too far from New York for Limhi’s search party.

Hills was trying to solve the problem by restricting it to Central America by comparing the text to the Maya. Forcing only Moroni to walk to New York. The other Nephites could then stay put.

The argument is Joseph Smith never stated The Book of Mormon occurred outside of North America. The Wentworth Letter was a correction to a phamplet made by Sidney Rigdon(?) with a hemispheric idea.

The FARMS organization has claimed Joseph Smith & Oliver Cowdery were wrong about North America which was also a Stebbins idea, though Stebbins had Cowdery’s Letters including Letter IV & VII.

Not every LDS scholar accepted Hills’ ideas. In fact, Hills ideas were rejected by the RLDS First Presidency.

His books persisted and were found in a dust bin. 🥸
TwoCumorahFraud
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by TwoCumorahFraud »

This is the 1911 Saints’ Herald:

http://www.latterdaytruth.org/pdf/100225.pdf

A large pdf. Download it and search for the word “Cumorah” in the free Adobe PDF Reader. The Safari browser works. Large file. May not load on a phone. Use a laptop/desktop for more memory. You’ll figure it out.

Other key words:
Hills
Central
South
America
Peru
Guatemala
Colombia

This can’t be hidden by Welch, Peterson, et al, & Co. And Hills books never belonged to any Church. He copyrighted them as his own work.
huckelberry
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by huckelberry »

Jawbone,

So what?

I mean I really don't get it. Sorry but,

So what?
drumdude
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by drumdude »

I’m afraid I have to agree. Of all the myriad things LDS apologists and especially DCP have done which deserve ridicule, this seems to rank very low.

They would love to have one hill Cumorah in New York. They would love to have Hebrew DNA in Native Americans. They would love to find evidence of the millions of dead men and steel swords from the battles. But they’re been backed into a corner where the events of the Book of Mormon have to be so tiny that the lack of evidence finally makes sense.
TwoCumorahFraud
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by TwoCumorahFraud »

huckelberry wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:30 pm
Jawbone,

So what?

I mean I really don't get it. Sorry but,

So what?
So what? The Book of Mormon is true, Huck.

It was an error by early RLDS members of a Church who incorrectly placed The Book of Mormon in the entire hemisphere. The idea of it being restricted to Central America was by a private member of that RLDS Church which has been used to the present day by 1978 FARMS and its scattered remnants in 2023.

Just because some dopey Utah organizations claim Tapirs were Nephite horses, doesn’t make fiction out The Book of Mormon.

GOT IT ?!
Marcus
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by Marcus »

Jawbone wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:39 pm
huckelberry wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:30 pm
Jawbone,

So what?

I mean I really don't get it. Sorry but,

So what?
So what? The Book of Mormon is true, Huck.

It was an error by early RLDS members of a Church who incorrectly placed The Book of Mormon in the entire hemisphere. The idea of it being restricted to Central America was by a private member of that RLDS Church which has been used to the present day by 1978 FARMS and its scattered remnants in 2023.

Just because some dopey Utah organizations claim Tapirs were Nephite horses, doesn’t make fiction out The Book of Mormon.

GOT IT ?!
I apologize i haven't followed this in detail. Do you really believe the Book of Mormon is a historical document or are you being sarcastic?
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Gadianton
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by Gadianton »

Jawbone, I feel like I'm getting from point A to point B slowly here, but you're not directly answering my questions and so forgive me if I slip up restating your position. The added history is very interesting to me, by the way.
His books persisted and were found in a dust bin
So was the Book of Mormon when Vincenzo Di Francesca discovered it. That the apostate RLDS church rejected it doesn't affect credibility, in fact, we'd expect the darkened world to discard it just like that person burned the Book of Mormon that Vincenzo found in the dust bin. I take it the problem is that the idea not only wasn't originated by the Prophet, but didn't even originate by a member-scholar in good standing -- it originated with a wannabe scholar from an apostate church. Is that the problem?

Normally I might say from DCP's perspective it's a non-issue because "Mendel was neglected" and so Hills also could have been neglected, but the quote from DCP does show he's trying to minimize the importance of Hills -- he's once again "barely aware" of something. 99.9% of the time, when DCP triumphantly announces he's "barely aware" of something, it's something he knows quite a lot about and it's something that is damning to Mopologetics.

It's as if he would acknowledge Mendel if really pressed on the matter, rather than boastfully -- "Look at Mendel!" Why isn't he saying "Look at Hills!" in the same way? He even said he'll take truth wherever he can find it, in connection with this matter. And so I do see that the participation of Hills is somehow material and damning to his worldview by the implications of his evasions over it when theoretically, by his theory, Hills should be on rich soil, but I'm trying to understand why that is the case. You both seem to be on the same page, but I'm not quite there in understand the page myself.
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drumdude
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography with Alfred E. Neuman

Post by drumdude »

The multiple L E Hills posters that have cropped up recently are all from believing Mormons who happen to be heartlanders. DCP noted on his blog a few weeks ago that he was amused we have found a common enemy in Mormon apologists.

So I recommend we treat our believing heartlanders friends with respect, since DCP was sure we would run them off with our trademark “militant atheism.”
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