Miraculous exaggerations of your Mormon friends and family

[drumdude]

I really loved this story Kish shared on his new podcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRW3_FRqKe4

I read [near death experience accounts] myself as a young man but I kind of soured on the whole near-death experience thing. Because one time I was flipping through one of these books, I think it was in my early 20s. I was out at BYU I suddenly realized that the people who had shared their stories in this one particular volume were actually people I knew.

I read their stories but there's something that didn't quite gel in in these stories for me. I knew these people. I knew their stories. knew they'd never shared these stories with me. In both cases these were people that I had reasons to doubt their credibility as sources.

I'm not going to get into their identities but in one case I had heard the story of this person's brush with death from somebody else. They had absolutely no clue that there was this near-death experience. That experience had never been shared. Now I'm not saying that all near-death experiences are just made up fantasies, but this kind of soured my enthusiasm for near-death experience stories.

It reminded me of just how many times the Mormons around me exaggerated experiences in their life to fit into a miraculous narrative. I remember a ton of stories about satan preventing someone from speaking during a moment of stress. And that the only remedy was to say or think the name of Christ.

Also tons of members had stories of receiving a blessing from a particularly high ranking Mormon leader, and a miraculous recovery from illness or financial windfall in the wake of that blessing.

It seems to me that this kind of framing, while maybe not unique to Mormons, is ratcheted up to 11 in the LDS church. You're expected to frame everything that happens into your life into the Mormon worldview, and turn even the mundane or happenstance into the miraculous. So that you can share these stories with other members as a sort of bonding ritual practice.

[IWMP]

I can see how you see it like that but I do believe it is more to do with perspective and being in that environment. I think how I see it, (I've never had a near death experience that I can think of, I probably could turn some events into near death experiences and it sounds believable but nah), when a person is counting their blessings all the time and are more conscious of their reliance on the spirit and on the miracles that we are taught are all gifts from God, then I can see how that would come about and how that perspective is created. I don't believe that every person is choosing to exaggerate for effect or to fit in. And also Chinese whispers. I'm sure some people are dramatic and do lay it on thick but I expect that is a part of their personality and they probably lay it on a bit thick in general.

Have you ever had a near death experience? I know my mum has had a few. I've been in situations where I was put in unnatural danger.

Edit typo. Brains not functioning. Left the house at 5:20 am to catch a train having had very little sleep.

[Marcus]

I thought you said you had an nde during childbirth?!! Maybe I am remembering someone else.

[IWMP]

I thought you said you had an nde during childbirth?!! Maybe I am remembering someone else.

Me? I thought I died but not sure that's the same as actually being close to death literally like when you hear people say they were in a car crash and saw the light. Or whatever. Think it was most likely that the pain was so intense I probably either nearly passed or passed out. Just remember everything going white and having no thoughts or feelings and no hearing or vision and then a sensation of nothing and then I was back in the room and I said I thought I died. The nurse ignored me and kept looking at a computer. But when I visualise near death experience I visualise like an accident or serious illness. But I suppose, one could class that as one. I wrote that reply when I felt awful this morning on the train. I've hardly slept and I feel like I've got a massive hangover. I didn't recall this morning. All that entered my mind when I thought about it was when my dad jumped in his car and drove across the grass to try to run us over and then shortly later he deliberately smashed into my mum's car about half a dozen times back and forth and then into a lamp post and it fell over. (But I concluded that I did not nearly die when I was running that in my mind).

[drumdude]

I can see how you see it like that but I do believe it is more to do with perspective and being in that environment. I think how I see it, (I've never had a near death experience that I can think of, I probably could turn some events into near death experiences and it sounds believable but nah), when a person is counting their blessings all the time and are more conscious of their reliance on the spirit and on the miracles that we are taught are all gifts from God, then I can see how that would come about and how that perspective is created. I don't believe that every person is choosing to exaggerate for effect or to fit in. And also Chinese whispers. I'm sure some people are dramatic and do lay it on thick but I expect that is a part of their personality and they probably lay it on a bit thick in general.

Have you ever had a near death experience? I know my mum has had a few. I've been in situations where I was put in unnatural danger.

Edit typo. Brains not functioning. Left the house at 5:20 am to catch a train having had very little sleep.

I've had one near death experience, and could easily have turned it into a miracle story. The thing is, I don't remember a lot of details around it. Those events, pretty much by definition, are full of adrenaline/stress/incapacitation and make for really hazy memories. The best people to recount the story would have been the ones around me, not me.

I'm curious, what do you mean by unnatural danger?

[Everybody Wang Chung]

As a missionary, my companion and I were stuck in a taxi during horrible traffic. The car behind us wasn't paying attention and gently bumped us. It was such a gentle bump that our driver and the other driver didn't even get out of their cars. It was such a non-issue, we never mentioned it to the other missionaries in our house, or anyone else.

A few months and a couple of transfers later, I was attending the mission Christmas conference with my new companion and our mission president talked about how angels really do protect us as we go about the Lord's work. He then brought up the "serious auto accident" and that it was miraculous that nobody was injured. He actually used it as a real life example of angels protecting missionaries.

I couldn't believe that such a non-event was now worthy of being used by our mission president as an example of a real life miracle. Evidently, my former mission companion had been telling this story over and over at zone/district conferences and fast and testimony meetings. At these meetings, he would would cry while testifying that he felt angels surrounding/protecting him as he miraculously walked away without injury from the smoking wreckage and twisted metal.

For the rest of my mission, I would have missionaries ask me about this miraculous event. I would just tell them that I remembered it differently. I actually felt bad and guilty by not corroborating my companion's version of this non-event. It was very awkward for me.

It wouldn't surprise me if my former companion still tells this story to his children and grandchildren. I'm sure this falsehood will be perpetuated as a faith promoting story for generations. Maybe at some distant time in the future, it will be mentioned at General Conference as a modern day miracle.

Unfortunately, we have a lot of Paul H. Dunns in the Church.

[Moksha]

It reminded me of just how many times the Mormons around me exaggerated experiences in their life to fit into a miraculous narrative.

What? Don't you think an exaggerated story about a flaming death spiral is worth telling? Stuff like that can boost the tithe offerings of the Saints!!!

[Philo Sofee]

As a missionary, my companion and I were stuck in a taxi during horrible traffic. The car behind us wasn't paying attention and gently bumped us. It was such a gentle bump that our driver and the other driver didn't even get out of their cars. It was such a non-issue, we never mentioned it to the other missionaries in our house, or anyone else.

A few months and a couple of transfers later, I was attending the mission Christmas conference with my new companion and our mission president talked about how angels really do protect us as we go about the Lord's work. He then brought up the "serious auto accident" and that it was miraculous that nobody was injured. He actually used it as a real life example of angles protecting missionaries.

I couldn't believe that such a non-event was now worthy of being used by our mission president as an example of a real life miracle. Evidently, my former mission companion had been telling this story over and over at zone/district conferences and fast and testimony meetings. At these meetings, he would would cry while testifying that he felt angels surrounding/protecting him as he miraculously walked away without injury from the smoking wreckage and twisted metal.

For the rest of my mission, I would have missionaries ask me about this miraculous event. I would just tell them that I remembered it differently. I actually felt bad and guilty by not corroborating my companion's version of this non-event. It was very awkward for me.

It wouldn't surprise me if my former companion still tells this story to his children and grandchildren. I'm sure this falsehood will be perpetuated as a faith promoting story for generations. Maybe at some distant time in the future, it will be mentioned at General Conference as a modern day miracle.

Unfortunately, we have a lot of Paul H. Dunns in the Church.

Doug Vincent and I shared our ideas on Bruce R. McConkie and Boyd K. Packer exaggerating in the exact same vain when they got a testimony of the revelation of the blacks getting the priesthood in 1978. They blew it totally all out of proportion and Kimball actually called McConkie on the carpet and DEMANDED he repent and fix all the lies! It's astonishing actually how strong Kimball got with Bruce R. "I am so important even choirs of angels sang for me" McConkie. It was on my last Sunday's Live, and well worth the watch! Doug did a sensational job of it all. I was just along for the ride.

[IWMP]

I'm curious, what do you mean by unnatural danger?

[Dwight]

I'm sure I'm the subject of a couple from my mission. One I think is funny, not sure how much it got passed around. Then a couple go in the miracle category I am sure. I just think it was coincidence with my bad genes.

I have detailed the incident with the truck elsewhere

Another story is we had a zone vs. zone softball game the day after 9/11. It seemed American to follow through on our plans and play. I ended up in a pickle situation. I thought that both basemen had 20-30 pounds on me, and I wasn't sure what the rules were if I plowed into one and he dropped the ball, would I still be out. I figured worst case scenario I would be the one that got hurt. So I charged one of the guys and he defensively brought his hand and mitt up to protect his face which sort of acted like an upper cut. I apparently went straight back and landed on my head. I went out like a light, and I woke up to a huge crowd around me. One missionary that I found very annoying, leaning over me from above, trying to talk to me. My arms and legs were gently shaking, not sure if I did the whole time I was out, and I contemplated with my eyes still shut if I could deck this guy and blame being knocked out, but decided not to press my luck. Opened my eyes and my body stopped with the tremors. I had a bit of a headache, declined the ambulance ride (I had a bad experience at the hospital they would have taken me to). They had enough time to give me a blessing while I was out. I'm sure they all talked about the miracle of it.

The other requires a lot of context to line up all the coincidences and context, but the very short version is I got seen by a bishop that worked and taught at Johns Hopkins. I was probably only missionary he saw for years before and after. He determined I probably had an immune deficiency that usually manifests in adulthood after having shingles and then a bad pneumonia. The immunologist he referred me to didn't even think I had it, but this guy was right. By the time this all got figured out my mission president decided that if all it took was me going to Johns Hopkins every four weeks to get an IV of immunoglobulin for the morning, that it was an acceptable for me to finish my mission and not be sent home for medical reasons. In retrospect while I had some good experiences after, I kind of wish I had been sent home and gotten on with my university education.