...Two things have been interesting to observe in the months since the garment redesign was announced. First, many women are talking about how painful it was to never be allowed to wear sleeveless clothing, especially when they were younger. The church taught them they were making a holy sacrifice, that covering their shoulders was what the Lord expected them to do to remain untainted by the world. So they covered up for their proms, weddings and every occasion in between, often while experiencing great frustration about how hard it was to find attractive clothes that met the church’s standards.
Second, many people are now gaslighting these women, saying they’re exaggerating or even fabricating how the church’s rampant modesty culture affected them...
It has been astonishing to see this unfold, and the attacks women are receiving for posting their opinions on this is really sad. It's also quite bizarre to see how many Mormon men are telling Mormon women what they actually felt in the past and what they really feel now. The sexism is so blatant.
Gaslighting
Mormon men do that a lot.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
It's also quite bizarre to see how many Mormon men are telling Mormon women what they actually felt in the past and what they really feel now. The sexism is so blatant.
Totally unrelated to sexism, but has anyone seen MG on this thread yet?
This fixation you have might be unhealthy. Some of the references on recent threads, direct and indirect, seem to point to a troubled mind...or at least one that has no shame.
From the OP quote:
It has been astonishing to see this unfold, and the attacks women are receiving for posting their opinions on this is really sad. It's also quite bizarre to see how many Mormon men are telling Mormon women what they actually felt in the past and what they really feel now. The sexism is so blatant.
Although we should also recognize that many many men who are members of the LDS Church are honest and well-intentioned. It might be more appropriate to direct your ire/complaint specifically towards church policies, leadership, or cultural norms, not individual Mormon men.
It's also quite bizarre to see how many Mormon men are telling Mormon women what they actually felt in the past and what they really feel now. The sexism is so blatant.
Totally unrelated to sexism, but has anyone seen MG on this thread yet?
One of the ironies that struck me about the clothing policing was when I heard LDS young men using "Modest is the hottest!" as a slogan to encourage young women to conform.
I mean, wasn't the point of the enforcement of "modest" clothing to avoid the appearance of male-distracting "hotness"?
One of the ironies that struck me about the clothing policing was when I heard LDS young men using "Modest is the hottest!" as a slogan to encourage young women to conform.
I mean, wasn't the point of the enforcement of "modest" clothing to avoid the appearance of male-distracting "hotness"?
Yes, a weird juxtaposition.
I think they were simply saying that modesty is cool.
“Modest is hottest”; or, how to completely miss the point. (self.exmormon)
I hate that phrase. “Modest is hottest”. It’s like a cringy adult Mormon version of the “how do you do, fellow kids?” Meme.
But even more frustrating than that is precisely how much it misses the point.
If the Mormon church claims rules regarding modesty and interpersonal relationships (like dating) are partly or primarily for the purpose of protecting and respecting the people, especially the women, following them, then shouldn’t that be ... exactly that?
If modesty is about how Mormon women “respect themselves” by not revealing their bodies, and respecting men by not luring them to temptation, then why do they have this dumbass saying? “Here is how to be sexually appealing & and tempting for your men! (But this isn’t the bad kind of tempting and sexiness we keep warning you about!)”
Why can’t we all just admit that phrases like modest is hottest and the attitude that spawns those phrases are really just another way to box women into social expectations of what beauty and sexiness really are, to shame those who do not follow those standards, and to give men a free pass to ogle and lust for women because “they’re modest, so this isn’t the bad kind of ogling” or some crap.
It doesn’t respect women. It doesn’t protect either party from tempting thoughts. It claims to be those things, but it’s the same crap packed up in a different box.
