Experiencing Christianity in Italy

[drumdude]

I love the great Christian architecture of the world, including cathedrals, basilicas, monasteries, convents, and LDS temples.

Same here. Might as well throw in Hindu Temples also.

One thing that does make the LDS temples unique is what goes on inside its walls. It may well be that the 'pinnacle' of the temple is something more than what can be observed from the outside.

Regards,
MG

Christ really deserved to be baptized in a font above some golden bovines, inside a gold and white room that looks like it belongs in the current Oval Office.

[sock puppet]

A few decades ago I walked through Chartres Cathedral, noting how the stone floor was worn into "channels", much of the wear, spanning centuries, having been caused by the feet of monks.

Later I sat outside, in the shade of the magnificent stone walls, and worked for a while on a MacBook, writing a configuration document for a telecom system. Modern technology (for me) paled in comparison to the "solid state" of the huge pieces of stone and, especially, the architecture..

I've also been inside and outside of Notre-Dame de Paris, the Basilica of Notre-Dame de Montreal, Sacré Cœur de Montmartre, and several of the British cathedrals and ruins.

Perhaps in 500 years I would have a different perspective on the Mormon Temples, but right now I can't say I'm a big fan.

Usually it takes natural scenery to really feel anything that I would call spiritual, but... Sacré Cœur is as close as I think I've ever been to the divine while within a manmade structure. There is just something about it that hits just right.

I agree. The Sacré Cœur at Montmartre in Paris is the height of religious architecture, in my opinion. I had to go back, and in August spent 3 days in the Montmartre area, our hotel just 100 yards behind the Sacré Cœur. Evenings on the descending lawn in front of it are a gathering place for 2,000-3,000 each evening, people playing guitar and singing songs like John Lennon's Imagine, waiting for dusk and the lights of Paris below to come on. The artist shops and displays, even the seedy area around Moulin Rouge and some of the best (and inexpensive restaurants) in Paris. A great way to spend summer days and evenings.

[MG 2.0]

Same here. Might as well throw in Hindu Temples also.

One thing that does make the LDS temples unique is what goes on inside its walls. It may well be that the 'pinnacle' of the temple is something more than what can be observed from the outside.

Regards,
MG

Christ really deserved to be baptized in a font above some golden bovines, inside a gold and white room that looks like it belongs in the current Oval Office.

Christ’s baptism in the Jordan wasn’t exactly gilded. But one might consider that the golden bovines and ornate rooms in LDS temples aren’t meant to suggest He deserved opulence. They’re symbolic, not self-aggrandizing. The oxen represent the twelve tribes of Israel, and the beauty of the space is meant to reflect reverence, not extravagance.

That said, your irony is apparent. It’s a bit like putting a crown on a carpenter (pun intended). But maybe that’s the paradox LDS theology leans into, honoring the humility of Christ with the highest expressions of devotion we can offer.

Regards,
MG

[sock puppet]

Christ really deserved to be baptized in a font above some golden bovines, inside a gold and white room that looks like it belongs in the current Oval Office.

Christ’s baptism in the Jordan wasn’t exactly gilded. But one might consider that the golden bovines and ornate rooms in LDS temples aren’t meant to suggest He deserved opulence. They’re symbolic, not self-aggrandizing. The oxen represent the twelve tribes of Israel, and the beauty of the space is meant to reflect reverence, not extravagance.

That said, your irony is apparent. It’s a bit like putting a crown on a carpenter (pun intended). But maybe that’s the paradox LDS theology leans into, honoring the humility of Christ with the highest expressions of devotion we can offer.

Regards,
MG

Why is a serene river setting--if it was good enough for Jesus' baptism--not adequate for Mormon baptisms and Mormon baptisms-for-the-dead?

[Gadianton]

I hope Drumdude has earned some respect from Dan for travelling to Europe to look at old churches. I hope he also ate Italian food while in Italy, something that should get huge props from Dan. You'd think only he and Midgley have ever done something like that, the way they talk.

To me, the SLC temple may be the most authentic temple out there. Even if Brigham was opposite of how Dan paints him, the saints who trekked west did so of their own free will. Building the Salt Lake temple might be the best example of a community public works project in history - true communism.

The pyramids were built with slave labor. The cathedrals of Europe were built by starving the poor. The SLC temple was everyone chipping in with their talents to build something that everyone wanted and that benefited everyone.

The SLC temple is kind of an outlier though, due to the unique circumstances of its building. Building epic cathedrals had already been done -- much like classical music was just about wrapping up as the temple was completed. Expecting somebody in the 20th century to build a structure that rivals the cathedrals of Europe makes about as much sense as demanding they write a piece of music that rival's the 9th symphony. There's no possible way to undertake the task or make the comparison.

It's not a burn on Mormons that they happened not to live during the Renaissance, and thus had no reason to starve their poor and undertake epic feats of architecture with primitive tools. It's somewhat of a burn on Mormons who think that temple building in modern times has anything to do with public works projects in ancient times or even resembles the outlier conditions that lead to the SLC temple. The belief that building structures in the 21st century is the least bit meaningful is absurd. But good ole "tinman" Rusty thought paying a pipeline of contractors a few pennies to piss of locals throughout the world was some big deal that got the Saints excited. They might pretend to get excited. They have pictures of temples all over their walls. But they really don't care. Why not just have AI come up with cool looking buildings and print them out? What's the challenge or point of actually building a thing in reality that is executed with 100% certainty from start to finish just to take a picture of for somebody's wall?

[Tom]

A few years ago, I used my Christmas bonus to purchase a copy of Temples of the Imagination: AI-generated Temples, Human-Generated Insights for the very purpose of of acquiring several pieces of fine temple art to decorate my home. I had had enough of art depicting LDS temples derivative of Stalinist architecture, such as the Hamilton New Zealand Temple. If nothing else, it’s entertaining to watch visiting Latter-day Saint friends and family rack their brains attempting to identify the temple in each illustration. “Is that the new Dubai Temple?”

[Whiskey]

A few years ago, I used my Christmas bonus to purchase a copy of Temples of the Imagination: AI-generated Temples, Human-Generated Insights for the very purpose of of acquiring several pieces of fine temple art to decorate my home. I had had enough of art depicting LDS temples derivative of Stalinist architecture, such as the Hamilton New Zealand Temple. If nothing else, it’s entertaining to watch visiting Latter-day Saint friends and family rack their brains attempting to identify the temple in each illustration. “Is that the new Dubai Temple?”

This cracked me up.