For Paul -- The Facsimiles of the Book of Abraham

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_Simon Belmont

Re: For Paul -- The Facsimiles of the Book of Abraham

Post by _Simon Belmont »

sock puppet wrote:Runtu, I respect you, but do not count me among that particular 'many.'

I keep talking about Mormonism because I find it fascinating, given that I am 5th generation Mo (now liberated), that a myth could have such a hold over 4 generations of my progenitors. I guess rationality is the recessive gene that I got.


But you have no more compelling evidence for the "myth" of Mormonism, then for the "myth" of atheism. It all really comes down to "why" and no one has the answer to that question.

It is particularly fascinating to see people live a life of denial because others make them feel guilty about their past behavior.


For example?

Then they feel they've paid their penance and so are accruing credits that they will be paid in a hereafter.


This has not been my experience in the Church at all. There is no "checks and balances" for the afterlife.

The reason I don't need to believe in a hereafter is because for the last 25 years (and going forward), I make each day count. No regrets. I need no reward in a hereafter. I don't short myself during this life, so no need for spoils in another life to balance the scales.


The problem with this is that this life is utterly meaningless from your point of view. Sure, you can make each day count, but for what? You are just going to die, and so are your beautiful children and lovely wife. You are all going to die, and in fact, you are dying right now -- we all are. So how can life without an existence after it be meaningful at all?

I spend time with those I want to, not with those I do not, and when those I love die and become ashes, I am warmed by the many, many memories I have.


Those "memories" are just electrical and chemical impulses in your brain. They are meaningless, and if you do not accept the divinity of our souls then you cannot attribute meaning to anything.


I did not short myself in time with them, so no need to hope for a second chance.


The problem is that time is so relative, it blinks by in a second. Indeed, time exists, really, all in one single moment. You will wake up one morning and be 85, and not believing in an afterlife prepare to cease to exist. How depressing.

No, I do not want Mormonism to be true.


I do, and I am glad that it is. It gives us a sense of who we really are and why we are here. Instead of biological mishaps or randomly generated sentience, we are divine beings who live on after this life.

Fortunately, the evidence is against it anyway because I would follow the evidence wherever it may lead.


If this were true, you would still be involved in the Church.
_Markk
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Re: For Paul -- The Facsimiles of the Book of Abraham

Post by _Markk »

If this were true, you would still be involved in the Church.


Hi Simon,

What bothers you most about Mormonism, I understand that you believe by faith, as I believe what I do by faith. But allowing yourself to be vulnerable, what part of the LDS story "tests" your faith more that others?

MG
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_beastie
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Re: For Paul -- The Facsimiles of the Book of Abraham

Post by _beastie »

Simon Belmont wrote:
sock puppet wrote:Fortunately, the evidence is against it anyway because I would follow the evidence wherever it may lead.


If this were true, you would still be involved in the Church.


Indeed. Why, for just one example, when the papyri were finally found and matched the Book of Abraham perfectly, as verified by Egyptologists, any sane person would have run back to the church. And this doesn't even touch the massive amounts of evidence found in Mesoamerica of an ancient Judeo-Christian civilization. Yes, it surprised archaeologists to discover horse and metallurgy artifacts from the Book of Mormon time period, in that massive civilization, but then science is full of surprises. Nor does it touch the fact that "by their fruits ye shall know them", and the characters of the prophets and fervent believers have been nothing but honorable.

No doubt the evidence would make any honest person a believer.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Simon Belmont

Re: For Paul -- The Facsimiles of the Book of Abraham

Post by _Simon Belmont »

beastie wrote:Indeed. Why, for just one example, when the papyri were finally found and matched the Book of Abraham perfectly, as verified by Egyptologists, any sane person would have run back to the church. And this doesn't even touch the massive amounts of evidence found in Mesoamerica of an ancient Judeo-Christian civilization. Yes, it surprised archaeologists to discover horse and metallurgy artifacts from the Book of Mormon time period, in that massive civilization, but then science is full of surprises. Nor does it touch the fact that "by their fruits ye shall know them", and the characters of the prophets and fervent believers have been nothing but honorable.

No doubt the evidence would make any honest person a believer.



Beastie,

Book of Mormon archaeology does not bother me at all, because I have a good enough understanding of how it works. Writing is more important than iconography -- that is why we know so much more about the ancient Romans than the ancient people of the Aegean sea, for example. In the New World what writings from the ancients are able to be translated with confidence? Really, we have only the Mayan writings, although we are making progress to understand some of the other languages (we know, for example, basic structures).

That is just ONE problem with New World archaeology.
_beastie
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Re: For Paul -- The Facsimiles of the Book of Abraham

Post by _beastie »

Simon Belmont wrote:

Beastie,

Book of Mormon archaeology does not bother me at all, because I have a good enough understanding of how it works. Writing is more important than iconography -- that is why we know so much more about the ancient Romans than the ancient people of the Aegean sea, for example. In the New World what writings from the ancients are able to be translated with confidence? Really, we have only the Mayan writings, although we are making progress to understand some of the other languages (we know, for example, basic structures).

That is just ONE problem with New World archaeology.


Writing is more subject to propaganda. Besides, we're not just talking about writing versus iconography - there are many methods which archaeologists use to determine things like social complexity and density. These are hugely problematic for the Book of Mormon.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
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Shulem
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In memory of Moksha

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Fig. 6. Anubis, a god belonging to the Egyptian religion:


Restored Lead Plate for Facsimile No. 3:

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