Elder Cook wants members (including MG) to reveal their true identity online

[Gadianton]

I note that the believing Mormons over on the MD&D board are almost universally against Elder Cook’s inspired counsel. Many think Cook is being naïve, that his counsel is “foolish”, that he is clueless as to the risks (especially to women) of removing their anonymity. Some have even suggested that they don’t trust the Church to not pursue them for their online activity were they to reveal themselves.

This has always been true. You may not have been around for the founding of "MAD", but the base doctrine of the faction that got that board started was "postmodern" interpretations of Mormonism that said people who believe in literal prophets are naiive. Their own higher educations tell them that Joseph Smith had a license to do whatever he damn well pleased and there was literally nothing that would stop him from being a prophet because the definition of a prophet isn't what we think it is. They never could explain themselves here -- it's basically just the same thing as MG, have cake and eat too, but with some window dressing from university writers on religion who were popular at the time.

The first level of this charade sounds insane. Since none of the old-school participants on that board believe in a prophet anymore than you or I, why spend 10% of your income paying for what you can get for free "doing what's right in your own eyes"? Why do what is right in your own eyes, and then pay 10% of your income as if it's coming from somebody you explicitly reject as a prophet?

Okay, my guess is that very, very few of those who employ relativism is large doses to defend the church are paying a full 10% tithing on their gross. I'd bet my 401k that neither MG nor any principal poster at MAD/FAIR is paying a full 10%. But they are probably paying something, but why even pay that?

Okay, there's a reason. You've admitted your church is false, that there is no such thing as prophets, but you want to maintain social ties, and that costs something. To stay in the club, maybe a 4% tithing and an hour of church a week (or two depending if you feel like it) while not just skipping the counsel of the prophets but laughing at people who are gullible enough to take it literally as fundamentalists or black-and-white-thinkers.

Okay, this does make some sense. No doubt these folks sit back in church feeling as if they are the elite, enlightened members. Consider how MG considers himself near the top of Fowler's stages of faith. So they see themselves as the "Star bellied Sneetches". They walk around church with their heads held high, laughing at people like my parents who took it literally. So now we can see why there is still social value to maintaining ties with the faith you've explicitly rejected, especially given that this can be maintained with little effort. Similar to wealth distinction. "Oh look at how rich I am and I don't have to work." Same thing. Makes sense.

But where it really starts to get really morally gray is in their full support of the church such as it is. It's one thing to think people like my parents were deluded fundamentalists who shot themselves in the foot because they couldn't think for themselves, and to actively encourage the church to expand its power and influence and go full steam ahead with bringing people into the church who like my parents, will be tricked into thinking prophets actually are real and that tithing is 10% on their gross income. Why sabotage the lives of innocent bystanders like this?

[Shulem]

I'd bet my 401k

NO! That would be foolish. Don't talk like that or risk it but be ready to convert it into an IRA when you retire.

Suppose someone was earning $50k twenty years ago and with an annual raise of 3% contributed 10% of their gross earnings into a retirement account and earned a 7% annual return. Today that would total $266k which would be that much less in Ensign Peak and all the more for that person's well being and personal security.

Did I ever tell you how much I hate the church? I really do.

[Equality]

I note that the believing Mormons over on the MD&D board are almost universally against Elder Cook’s inspired counsel. Many think Cook is being naïve, that his counsel is “foolish”, that he is clueless as to the risks (especially to women) of removing their anonymity. Some have even suggested that they don’t trust the Church to not pursue them for their online activity were they to reveal themselves.

They are sooooo close to getting it.

[Marcus]

I note that the believing Mormons over on the MD&D board are almost universally against Elder Cook’s inspired counsel. Many think Cook is being naïve, that his counsel is “foolish”, that he is clueless as to the risks (especially to women) of removing their anonymity. Some have even suggested that they don’t trust the Church to not pursue them for their online activity were they to reveal themselves.

Have they realized Cook was just recycling a talk he gave in 2012?

What E’er Thou Art, Act Well Thy Part: Avoid Wearing Masks That Hide Identity
Elder Quentin L. Cook

Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

quentin-l-cook-10

CES Devotional for Young Adults • March 4, 2012 • Brigham Young University–Idaho

Elder Quentin L. Cook

Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

CES Devotional for Young Adults • March 4, 2012 • Brigham Young University–Idaho

I rejoice in the opportunity https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... -p4#title1

To me, that's more evidence lds prophets are not only not prophets about the future situations they don't even understand current situations. For his convenience Cook gave a talk that is almost identical to his 15 year old talk. Today, his 2012 words are tone deaf at best, and in my opinion give very dangerous online advice.

[drumdude]

Good catch. I guess Mormon God hasn't had much new to reveal to him in the past 14 years.


1. Abraham Foxman and the KKK Analogy

Last summer Elder L. Tom Perry and I, along with Michael Otterson, in our capacities in public affairs, met with Abraham Foxman in his New York office. Mr. Foxman is the national director of the Anti-Defamation League. Its mission is to stop the defamation of the Jewish people. He has been involved in this work for almost 40 years. The account of his life that led him to this position is very compelling. He was born at the beginning of World War II. His parents, Joseph and Helen Foxman, facing edicts against Jews, turned Abraham over to a Polish Catholic girl just before they entered a Jewish ghetto in Vilna, Lithuania, in September 1941. Abraham was 13 months old. His parents survived the war and the Holocaust but were not reunited with Abraham until he was four years old. ...

In our meeting with him in New York, I asked him what counsel he would have for us in connection with our responsibilities in public affairs for the Church. He pondered for a moment and then explained the importance of encouraging people to not wear masks.

He described the Ku Klux Klan. It was an organization that was very influential and quite frightening to most Americans in the first part of the last century. With identical robes and masks that made it impossible to identify the participants, they burned crosses on the lawns of those they targeted and appointed themselves as so-called moral watchdogs. Among those most targeted were African Americans, but Catholics, Jews, and immigrants were as well. ...

... the majority of them, without the masks, were usually normal people, including businessmen and churchgoers. He noted that hiding their identity and wearing a mask enabled them to participate in activities that they would normally have avoided. Their conduct had a terrible impact on American society. Mr. Foxman’s counsel was to stress the importance of people avoiding masks that hide their true identity.

A friend of mine, Abe Foxman, passed away in May of this year. For many years he was the national director of the Anti-Defamation League. He dealt primarily with anti-Semitism. He was a baby in Poland during the Holocaust in the early 1940s and his Jewish parents placed him with a non-Jewish caretaker because their situation was so precarious.

On one occasion I asked him for counsel on how to avoid the terrible acts that some people commit. He thought for a minute and then explained the importance of not hiding their identity in any fashion.

He described the Ku Klux Klan—it was an organization that was very influential and quite frightening to most Americans in the first part of the 1900s. With identical robes and masks they made it impossible to identify the participants, they burned crosses on the lawns of those they targeted and appointed themselves as so-called moral watchdogs. Among those most targeted were African Americans, but Catholics, Jews, and immigrants were as well.

He noted that the majority of them without the mask were usually normal people, including businessmen and churchgoers. He pointed out that hiding their identity and wearing a mask enabled them to participate in activities that they would have normally avoided. Mr. Foxman’s counsel was to stress the importance of people avoiding masks that hide their true identity.

2. Mob Attack at Hiram, Ohio (March 24, 1832)

In our early Church history, the Prophet Joseph, Emma, and their 11-month-old twins Joseph and Julia were in Hiram, Ohio, at the Johnson farm. Both of the children were suffering from measles. Joseph and his little son were sleeping on a trundle bed near the front door.

During the night a group of men with black-painted faces burst through the door and dragged the Prophet outside where they beat him and threw tar on him and Sidney Rigdon.

“When Emma saw the beaten and tarred Joseph, she fainted. … “… Though the Prophet had lost a tooth, received a severe injury in his side, was missing a patch of hair, and had nitric acid burns, he preached a sermon at the usual Sunday worship service. Among the Saints gathered there were at least four members of the mob.”

The most tragic part of this mobbing was that little Joseph was exposed to the night air when his father was dragged away and caught a severe cold and, as a result, died a few days later.

One example: in our early Church history, on March 24, 1832, the Prophet Joseph, Emma, and their 11-month-old adopted twins, Joseph and Julia were in Hiram, Ohio at the John and Elsa Johnson farmhouse. Both children were suffering from measles. Joseph and his little son were sleeping on a trundle bed near the front door.

During the night, a group of men with soot covering their faces burst through the door and dragged the Prophet outside where they beat him and threw hot tar on him and Sidney Rigdon.

When Emma saw the beaten and tarred Joseph approaching the door, she fainted. The Prophet was hardly recognizable—he had his clothes torn off him, a chipped tooth, lacerations across his body, was missing a patch of hair, and covered in tar. Throughout the night, Emma and Elsa Johnson did their best to remove the tar from Joseph's skin and hair. That morning, Joseph preached a sermon at the usual Sunday worship service and recognized several of the men from the mob in the congregation.

Beyond the aches and scars, the most tragic part of this mobbing was that little Joseph was exposed to the cold night air when his father was dragged away. He caught a severe cold and died later that week.

3. Carthage Martyrdom & Secret Combinations

It is also interesting that those who participated in the martyrdom of the Prophet Joseph and his brother Hyrum painted their faces in an effort to hide their true identities.

Those who camouflage their identity and enter into secret combinations are of particular concern. We learn in the Book of Mormon that Lucifer “stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness” (2 Nephi 9:9...).

A few years later those who participated in the martyrdom of the Prophet Joseph and his brother, Hyrum, also painted their faces in an effort to hide their true identities.

Those who camouflage their identity and enter into secret combinations are of particular concern. We learn in the Book of Mormon that Lucifer, “... stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness.”

4. Digital Anonymity & Missionary Appearance

Now, I am not suggesting that any of you would be involved in the kind of terrible events I have just described. I do believe, in our day, when being anonymous is easier than ever, that there are important principles involved in not wearing a mask...

One of your greatest protections against making bad choices is to not put on any mask of anonymity. If you ever find yourself wanting to do so, please know it is a serious sign of danger and one of the adversary's tools to get you to do something you should not do.

One of the reasons we advise missionaries to dress conservatively and the elders to be clean shaven is so that there will be no question as to who they are and how they should act. Some will question: Isn't that just superficial? I don't think so.

... in our day our manner of dress and adornment can be an indication of rebellion or lack of adherence to moral standards and negatively impact the moral standards of others.

Now I am not suggesting that any of you would be involved in the kind of terrible events I have just described. I do believe, in our day, being anonymous and hiding one's identity is easier than ever. Please do not hide in anonymity to say unkind or cruel things. Please be a light in every interaction.

One of your greatest protections against making bad choices is to not put on any mask of anonymity. If you ever find yourself wanting to do so, please know it is a serious sign of danger and one of the adversary's tools to get you to do something you should not do.

One of the reasons we advise missionaries to dress conservatively and wear a missionary badge is so that there will be no question as to who they are and how they should act. Some will question: Isn't that just superficial? I do not think so.

In our day our manner of dress and adornment can be an indication of rebellion or lack of adherence to moral standards and negatively impact the moral standards of others.

[sock puppet]

Hey, MG 2.0. Just consider it doxxing oneself for the Lord. Man up--or if you prefer, Lord up--and do it!!!