A big hello

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Gadianton
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Re: A big hello

Post by Gadianton »

That's all fine and good, Bob. Feel free to be Bob. It's unlikely I will see the need to "pick away" at your beliefs.

You wrote:
You people act like your choice to subscribe to the reductionist notion that science is the arbitrator of all truth, and that all truth is testable in the test tube and in the lab gives you the human right to be asses from a human-interaction point of view. It doesn't.
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
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Res Ipsa
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Re: A big hello

Post by Res Ipsa »

Bob wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:57 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:47 pm
I’ve interacted with enough Bobs to last a lifetime. They blow into a forum talking smack and dripping with condescension. They confidently make all sorts of dogmatic claims, but respond to pushback with dodging and insults. I keep thinking one of them will have some interesting ideas, but I’m always disappointed.

Life is complicated and hard. I have a ton of compassion for people who struggle to understand their place in the universe in a way that will let them be happy. I have lots of relatives and friends who do this through Mormonism. And that’s okay by me. I’ve have never tried to deconvert any of them. And none of them have tried to reconvert me. (And I totally get that I’m lucky in that respect.)

And I have all kinds of respect for Mormons who thoughtfully try to wrestle with Mormonisms problems and find a solution that works for them. Most that I have encountered are both sincere and humble about it.

But the Bobs—those who adopt fringe views of Mormonism yet retain the arrogance that they’ve discovered the truth and treat others who disagree with disdain and contempt —
I have little patience for. Anybody who insists that dismisses cognitive dissonance as just an emotion yet claims that emotions are spiritual evidence and gets offended when his views aren’t accepted has just swapped one set of dogmatic beliefs for another.
Not one of the things you have said here is true.
That is literally false.
I have no condescension. I have responses for condescension applied to me.
I forgot to include an absence of self awareness. Your first post in this thread drips with condescension.
I have not once tried to reconvert you.
Never said you did.
I have not come here to fight with you, only to post "stuff".
I totally get that. You’re here to preach your truth, but unwilling to subject it to scrutiny.
You claim I am insincere and arrogant, neither of which are true.
I never claimed you are insincere. I think you are 100% sincere, just like every other Bob I’ve encountered. And arrogant. You walked in here and right off the bat started telling everyone how they should act and spouting excuses for your lack of sympathy. (Personally, I’d have used the word “empathy”.)
I am confident and resilient enough to not take it when someone tries to sucker punch me. That is all you have experienced from me in this thread.
Equating challenging claims you make is not “sucker punching.” All I’ve experienced from you is defensiveness, evasion, deflection, and childish insult.
I never once presumed you would accept what I have to say, nor did I care if you did accept them. I have only stated what I had to say in response to your queries.
I never claimed that you expected me to accept them. Like all Bobs, you get your rocks off preaching the “truth” and calling people to the repentance. Just like an Old Testament prophet.

My beliefs may be swapped for what is normal Mormonism, but you asked me what my Mormonism was, and I answered. You should have expected that anyone coming here that is still a member would have a reinvented Mormonism. I never claimed mine was anything other than that.
Funny, I don’t recall asking you about your Mormonism. I do recall asking you questions that you responded to with insult rather than substance. And I don’t fault you for having a non traditional approach to Mormonism. I fault you for arrogantly claiming to know the truth and asserting factual claims as true just because you said so. It’s the complete arrogance of the TBM, although we need a different term like TBM*
I am not the least bit offended. I have simply answered and countered in attacks. I have presented the way I have become mentally to deal with what I know and deal with and what I now believe, when over the decades I have encountered what I have encountered and grown from.
Stop attributing to me what are false attributions.
You’ve misinterpreted challenges to your claims as “attacks” because you came here with an enormous chip on your shoulder. Had you simply showed up and communicated that you have a different take on Mormonism that you wanted to share, you certainly wouldn’t have had push back from me. But that’s not what you did. Your first communication to this community as Bob was arrogant, judgmental, and condescending. I do believe I welcomed you and defended your right to start fresh with a new nickname. But as soon as I pushed back on your claim that belief is a simple choice, you got defensive, evasive, and insulting. I stand by every attribution — at least the ones I actually made.

If you want to simply share your wisdom without being challenged, just say so. I’ll stick you on ignore and talk with the folks here that are willing to actually discuss their ideas.
he/him
When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig’d to call for the help of the Civil Power, ’tis a Sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.

Benjamin Franklin
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Jersey Girl
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Re: A big hello

Post by Jersey Girl »

Bob wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:52 pm
This question is for Shulem, right?
Bob. Take my hand. Look at the post in question. Do you see your screen name there?

I'm having Deja Vu now, Bob. Probably not a good sign.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
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Res Ipsa
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Re: A big hello

Post by Res Ipsa »

Bob wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:25 am
Gadianton wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:12 am
Bob,

I've read your responses, but given there is quite a bit of material and backstory, I'm just going to focus on one thing for now.

. . . .

The degree to which this is apologetics will be determined by how open you are to debating your assumptions. For instance, Res Ipsa has challenged the very idea of a "choice" that exists in the way that existentialists imagine it.
I am not open to debating choices, apologetics or not. I confess I am not an expert on philosophy and you have me there. Nevertheless, I will eventually find the right philosophical underpinnings for my beliefs, or at least the right mix of rational argument. Either way, I will continue to live and believe as I do. You are welcome to pick away at my assumptions and show me my philosophical naïvété. That doesn't mean that my mind changes about my religion or what I have accepted to live by in my spiritual life to protect the state of my afterlife.

My personal choices are not negotiable or subject to rational argument regardless. if that is unreasonable and irrational, so be it.
Then keep your “choices” personal. Don’t impose the personal story you tell yourself on others and then judge them for it.
he/him
When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig’d to call for the help of the Civil Power, ’tis a Sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.

Benjamin Franklin
msnobody
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Re: A big hello

Post by msnobody »

Wow. While I was working, this developed into an eleven-pager. Why? :roll:
"Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy” Jude 1:24
“the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.” 1 John 1:7 ESV
toon
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Re: A big hello

Post by toon »

I think it's a bit disingenuous to post here under a new handle and then refer back to how you had been treated previously under different handles without disclosing those handles so that others here can evaluate those claims. My concern has nothing to do with anonymity. I post anonymously. But it does have to do with continuity, especially if you're also referring back to your prior interactions under a different handle. It's difficult to take seriously someone who claims to have been treated poorly under a different handle, when that person won't let us know what that handle was so that we can independently evaluate the claim.

Again, my concern has nothing to do with posting anonymously. But is this a forum where people can have multiple sock puppet accounts?
Ed1
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Re: A big hello

Post by Ed1 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:42 am
I totally get that. You’re here to preach your truth, but unwilling to subject it to scrutiny.
Not true. Go ahead. Pick at it. Show me where my mix of assumptions and beliefs is flawed so that the next time around with the next sock puppet, I am stronger.

Why do you think I come every so often testing the latest I've come up with? To test what I've come up with so far, to test my assumptions and arguments on various subjects.. Do you think this has no purpose?
Mopologists as you call them can't give me what I need. I have long since abandoned interaction with those jokes of human flesh. You give me what I need, to see where I have holes in my arguments, and to shore up the holes exist.

Then perhaps after I tire out, the old sock puppet is retired, and the next one is adopted, with a new set of arguments to see if I finally have stumbled on something that works, that can withstand something.

If I can make a few friends, and gain a little respect instead of enemies that just get angry, then the sock puppet stays, or I actually reveal my identity.

So far I can't say that this sock puppet has had a lot of success at making friends or gaining respect, but I have gained a lot of insight once again.

One thing I thought this time around was that by simply being honest about how I have no patience for people's stupid choices, as I see them, that people could at least live with those statements. No sir. That's not how this has turned out this time. The truth of how I genuinely feel has not really helped me this time around.
“Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise; seek what they sought.” ― Matsuo Basho
Ed1
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Re: A big hello

Post by Ed1 »

toon wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:01 am
I think it's a bit disingenuous to post here under a new handle and then refer back to how you had been treated previously under different handles without disclosing those handles so that others here can evaluate those claims. My concern has nothing to do with anonymity. I post anonymously. But it does have to do with continuity, especially if you're also referring back to your prior interactions under a different handle. It's difficult to take seriously someone who claims to have been treated poorly under a different handle, when that person won't let us know what that handle was so that we can independently evaluate the claim.

Again, my concern has nothing to do with posting anonymously. But is this a forum where people can have multiple sock puppet accounts?
Don't care.
“Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise; seek what they sought.” ― Matsuo Basho
Ed1
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Re: A big hello

Post by Ed1 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:49 am
Bob wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:25 am


I am not open to debating choices, apologetics or not. I confess I am not an expert on philosophy and you have me there. Nevertheless, I will eventually find the right philosophical underpinnings for my beliefs, or at least the right mix of rational argument. Either way, I will continue to live and believe as I do. You are welcome to pick away at my assumptions and show me my philosophical naïvété. That doesn't mean that my mind changes about my religion or what I have accepted to live by in my spiritual life to protect the state of my afterlife.

My personal choices are not negotiable or subject to rational argument regardless. if that is unreasonable and irrational, so be it.
Then keep your “choices” personal. Don’t impose the personal story you tell yourself on others and then judge them for it.
They asked. I answered.
“Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise; seek what they sought.” ― Matsuo Basho
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Shulem
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Re: A big hello

Post by Shulem »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:47 pm

Test question: You knew who Chickdeario was on the temp board, didn't you?

Yeah, I think so. Duhhh.

Liz baby and Ipsa came first. Gad not far behind.

:D
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