Revisioning the Sacred, the Problem of Mormonism

[Shulem]

The guilt one is put through

Guilt, guilt, and more guilt. You're just guilty!

You're guilty if you do and you're guilty if you don't. It's guilt of commission and guilt of omission. Either way, you can never be good enough or do enough. You fall short, so you're guilty.

A word search in the scriptures gave this result:

GUILT

2x Old Testament
0x times New Testament
13x Book of Mormon
1x D&C
2x PofGP

GUILTY

20x Old Testament
6x times New Testament
12x Book of Mormon
5x D&C
1x PofGP

Notice that the Book of Mormon beat the Bible!

[mentalgymnast]

I have an idea of why the current "apostasy" from Mormonism is occurring.

Sin is so much more fun once the shackles come off. Woohoo!

I read your post Philo. Enlightenment. The Divine within. Leaving organized/corporate religion.

Doesn’t it all come down to:

1.“self” and determining what is sin and what is not sin?

2.Creating a rationale for one’s actions within a self created framework rather than one created outside of the self?

3. Realizing that not only is the Divine within, but the self becomes the ultimate arbiter of what is right and wrong?

In essence, looking at it more broadly beyond ‘self’...anything goes. You do your thing and I’ll do mine and it’s all equally good. We are all gods unto ourselves.

Is that close to coming to a ‘where the rubber meets the road’ synopsis of what day to day life looks like after we shrink wrap everything into a package of “I’m in charge, so leave me be. I’m accountable to no higher source than myself.”

I think those that are leaving organized religion leave for many different reasons, but one of the primary being that folks want to make their own rules without being subject to authority. And I can see why that is so. There are some religions that actually do require living a set of requirements that are whacko.

https://www.netflix.com/title/81229101? ... d=14170286

for example.

With some real whack nuts out there it’s easy to see why some folks package all of organized religion into the same “nutty” package and the come up with reasons for trashing such through a number of ways such as those described in your epistle to the unbelievers.

And at the end of the day making up their own rules of behavior. Shulem being one example among many.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

And at the end of the day making up their own rules of behavior. Shulem being one example among many.

Regards,
MG

And you being another.

[Philo Sofee]

I have an idea of why the current "apostasy" from Mormonism is occurring.

Sin is so much more fun once the shackles come off. Woohoo!

I read your post Philo. Enlightenment. The Divine within. Leaving organized/corporate religion.

Doesn’t it all come down to:

1.“self” and determining what is sin and what is not sin?

2.Creating a rationale for one’s actions within a self created framework rather than one created outside of the self?

3. Realizing that not only is the Divine within, but the self becomes the ultimate arbiter of what is right and wrong?

In essence, looking at it more broadly beyond ‘self’...anything goes. You do your thing and I’ll do mine and it’s all equally good. We are all gods unto ourselves.

Is that close to coming to a ‘where the rubber meets the road’ synopsis of what day to day life looks like after we shrink wrap everything into a package of “I’m in charge, so leave me be. I’m accountable to no higher source than myself.”

I think those that are leaving organized religion leave for many different reasons, but one of the primary being that folks want to make their own rules without being subject to authority. And I can see why that is so. There are some religions that actually do require living a set of requirements that are whacko.

https://www.netflix.com/title/81229101? ... d=14170286

for example.

With some real whack nuts out there it’s easy to see why some folks package all of organized religion into the same “nutty” package and the come up with reasons for trashing such through a number of ways such as those described in your epistle to the unbelievers.

And at the end of the day making up their own rules of behavior. Shulem being one example among many.

Regards,
MG

Your religion is one of the most heinous for stamping down individuals, so don't got giving us others are guilty and Mormonism is not. That won't pass muster. And yes, the new vision is of the old One. No one has authority over the person unless that person succumbs and gives in to an outside authority. That is exactly what my research shows. Mormonism suppresses the individual, while the actual early archetype truth the ancients had did nothing of the sort.

[mentalgymnast]

And at the end of the day making up their own rules of behavior. Shulem being one example among many.

Regards,
MG

And you being another.

It’s a mix. I make up some of my own rules that help me remain mentally, physically, and spiritually healthy. I also adhere to rules not of my own making which I also find help me to reach a place of wholeness. They’re called Commandments.

Regards,
MG

[mentalgymnast]

I read your post Philo. Enlightenment. The Divine within. Leaving organized/corporate religion.

Doesn’t it all come down to:

1.“self” and determining what is sin and what is not sin?

2.Creating a rationale for one’s actions within a self created framework rather than one created outside of the self?

3. Realizing that not only is the Divine within, but the self becomes the ultimate arbiter of what is right and wrong?

In essence, looking at it more broadly beyond ‘self’...anything goes. You do your thing and I’ll do mine and it’s all equally good. We are all gods unto ourselves.

Is that close to coming to a ‘where the rubber meets the road’ synopsis of what day to day life looks like after we shrink wrap everything into a package of “I’m in charge, so leave me be. I’m accountable to no higher source than myself.”

I think those that are leaving organized religion leave for many different reasons, but one of the primary being that folks want to make their own rules without being subject to authority. And I can see why that is so. There are some religions that actually do require living a set of requirements that are whacko.

https://www.netflix.com/title/81229101? ... d=14170286

for example.

With some real whack nuts out there it’s easy to see why some folks package all of organized religion into the same “nutty” package and the come up with reasons for trashing such through a number of ways such as those described in your epistle to the unbelievers.

And at the end of the day making up their own rules of behavior. Shulem being one example among many.

Regards,
MG

Your religion is one of the most heinous for stamping down individuals, so don't got giving us others are guilty and Mormonism is not.

Yes, there are individuals who have a much more difficult time living within the LDS structure and theology. I totally get that. And just as with the world at large with adaptions taking place in nature and another instances we also find adaptions necessarily taking place within the LDS structure and theology on an individual level. Granted, there are many instances and examples where that becomes a real challenge.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

And you being another.

It’s a mix. I make up some of my own rules that help me remain mentally, physically, and spiritually healthy. I also adhere to rules not of my own making which I also find help me to reach a place of wholeness. They’re called Commandments.

Regards,
MG

That’s what we all do. Nobody makes rules from scratch. They pick and choose.

[mentalgymnast]

It’s a mix. I make up some of my own rules that help me remain mentally, physically, and spiritually healthy. I also adhere to rules not of my own making which I also find help me to reach a place of wholeness. They’re called Commandments.

Regards,
MG

That’s what we all do. Nobody makes rules from scratch. They pick and choose.

True. I suppose that this is where we are left to determine whether or not some rules are from heaven or not. When I’m saying I make up my own rules I should say I pick and choose from external and internal sources. But yes, even those internal sources are contingent on what is already known or practiced in the world as we know it.

The ‘blank slate’ has to have something written on it.

Regards,
MG

[Dr Exiled]

That’s what we all do. Nobody makes rules from scratch. They pick and choose.

True. I suppose that this is where we are left to determine whether or not some rules are from heaven or not. When I’m saying I make up my own rules I should say I pick and choose from external and internal sources. But yes, even those internal sources are contingent on what is already known or practiced in the world as we know it.

The ‘blank slate’ has to have something written on it.

Regards,
MG

When I was a believer, I always had a hard time with the picking and choosing part. It drove me crazy. How do you know if your rule is the correct one? How do you know that your supposed spiritual feeling is from God or just from yourself or from somewhere else? It is impossible to know and so one has to rely on other's experience or history, and one's own experience. Then the concept of sin which presupposes one knows the path ...

[huckelberry]

I read your post Philo. Enlightenment. The Divine within. Leaving organized/corporate religion.

Doesn’t it all come down to:

1.“self” and determining what is sin and what is not sin?

2.Creating a rationale for one’s actions within a self created framework rather than one created outside of the self?

3. Realizing that not only is the Divine within, but the self becomes the ultimate arbiter of what is right and wrong?

In essence, looking at it more broadly beyond ‘self’...anything goes. You do your thing and I’ll do mine and it’s all equally good. We are all gods unto ourselves.

Is that close to coming to a ‘where the rubber meets the road’ synopsis of what day to day life looks like after we shrink wrap everything into a package of “I’m in charge, so leave me be. I’m accountable to no higher source than myself.”

.........

Regards,
MG

MG , the view about moral self determination you point out is held by a few drunk 17 year olds. Most all of those will grow out of that sort of thought. They will realize that moral decisions are based upon relationships with others and workable stratagies to accomplish goals. Social laws and conventions are a part of that but the bedrock is how to live successfully and happily with others in this world.

Moral awareness functions with a self in relationship to others. It does not function well without a good sense of self. I think Philo would agree with that, I think he is concerned about not forgetting to tend to the selfs health side of the relationship.