juliann lobs another water balloon at Beastie

[_beastie]

I really don't know if Ralphman has been banned. They don't make announcements, but after his jab (spot-on jab, by the way) of Juliann I wouldn't be surprised.

Out of my misery - Juliann is difficult and irritating to read, no doubt.

Runtu - What Juliann does to Mormonism as a whole in order to salvage her belief reminds me very much of what apologists like Brant do to the Book of Mormon to salvage his belief in it as a historical document. I doubt that it "works" for many others, outside those who are desperate to find a way to retain belief because the cost of nonbelief is too high.

[_Ray A]

I really don't know if Ralphman has been banned. They don't make announcements, but after his jab (spot-on jab, by the way) of Juliann I wouldn't be surprised.

Ralphman is still listed under "members". When someone is banned, "banned" replaces "members".

[_Runtu]

I really don't know if Ralphman has been banned. They don't make announcements, but after his jab (spot-on jab, by the way) of Juliann I wouldn't be surprised.

Out of my misery - Juliann is difficult and irritating to read, no doubt.

Runtu - What Juliann does to Mormonism as a whole in order to salvage her belief reminds me very much of what apologists like Brant do to the Book of Mormon to salvage his belief in it as a historical document. I doubt that it "works" for many others, outside those who are desperate to find a way to retain belief because the cost of nonbelief is too high.

Brant cracks me up. I thought he was a teenager until I saw his photo. I'll never forget the day he said that "horses and chariots" referred to ceremonial animals being carried on special wheel-less platforms. Too funny. And sad at the same time.

[_Dr. Shades]

Juliann really is a gem of a poster:

have yet to see a countermopologist even define postmodernism let alone use it in any meaningful way (beyond their reliance on pejoratives for survival).

Irony #1: Juliann has never defined it, either. She demands others to provide definitions of prophets, revelation, and now postmodernism, and yet cannot define any of those things herself.

Seven doesn't know the difference between elements of metholodology and "postmodernism".

Irony #2: Beastie has a far, far deeper understanding of each of those subjects than does Juliann herself--as she's demonstrated time after time after time!

But then there is nothing like an avowed atheist who maligns religion for being out of touch with the modern world trying to use postmodernism as a pejorative when it is postmodernism that has brought in liberation, feminist and queer (yes, that is the term) theology.

Irony #3: "Using postmodernism as a perjorative" has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not postmodernism brought in liberation, feminist, and queer theology. Yet leave it to Juliann to mindlessly conflate the two.

Countermopologists need to decide where they stand...hopefully somewhere between that nose they keep cutting off and their face.

Irony #4: "Countermopologists" have been carefully and patiently explaining to Juliann where they stand from day one, yet Juliann consistently sticks her fingers in her ears and yells "la la la!" in order to remain purposefully ignorant.

I have a long history with Juliann . . . This behavior is par for the course for Juliann. Reality is that despite her propensity to quote scholars, she often doesn't have a very good grasp of what the scholars are saying.

I agree. She's pretty good at doing google searches for random quotes from her favorite authority figures, but she's quite poor at mentally synthesizing the knowledge to reveal a workable theory.

[_Mister Scratch]

Well, juliann has been ratcheting up the rancor over on the fittingly named MADboard (also interesting is the massive mod involvement throughout the thread---beaucoup deletions and warnings). First off, we get this tidbit from "gramps":

Hi Juliann. Thanks for responding. I do appreciate it. If she [i.e., Beastie / Seven] is, as you say, denigrating you, then by all means go there and respond. I checked yesterday and hadn't seen a response from you to her post, at that time. Perhaps you have been over there since then. Again, if so, my apologies on that point.

Can Seven come here and make her point? I think she is banned here, or am I wrong?

And she really isn't doing anything wrong if you both can challenge each other on ZLMB, right? So, what is your motivation for bringing it here, assuming she can't come here to respond, or attack, for that matter?

Again, I may be assuming incorrectly. So, can she come here and argue, or not?

An excellent question! As anyone who knows Dr. Shades' blog can tell you, Beastie has indeed been banned from participating on the Board-Formerly-and-Ironically-Known-as-FAIR. What do you suppose is juliann's reply?

Funny guy. I'm not aware of Seven being banned, although I admit I don't pay much attention. I think she just announced she was too good for the place. I have no obligation to go to her when she and her pals are "talking behind my back" so to speak. If she wanted to have a discussion with me instead of about me she would have come here.

It's worth pointing out that Beastie / Seven was one of the main contributors to juliann's completely warped and distorted "apostate narrative" threads. Is juliann distorting evidence here yet again? Or is she just bawking and pecking at the ground like the mother hen than she is?

It wasn't my call and it isn't my responsibility to do anything about it...but it is a little odd to be ignoring her behavior while taking me to task for merely responding where I have always responded

Ah, so she did know about the banning.... So what's she doing then? Trying to avoid the truth, which is that she's "hiding" on the MAD board, where she receives extra-special Mod protection?

I don't have the time right now to be juggling multiple boards...posting time has been very limited lately. One of the benefits of cutting loose from FAIR is that it gives us more freedom and I intend to use it.

If anyone can figure out what she's talking about here, I'm all ears. Is she saying that she's going to post more often? Or that she's going to make an effort to avoid massive violations of scholarly integrity?

="juliann"Back to the topic, when talking about pomo and religion in the same breath, it might occur to the average person that biblicists should be consulted. But Seven shows no signs of knowing the difference between pomo science and art let alone religion.

I find this laughable. Consult biblicists? Go right on ahead, juliann! As we all know, this is the last refuge of desperation when it comes to juliann: start demanding people with special (and even silly) expertise, such as her far-flung "ink analysis expert" demands during the whole KEP debacle.

[_Dr. Shades]

To be honest, FAIR reinstated Beastie the same time they reinstated myself and Truth Dancer.

Unfortunately, no sooner did Beastie take a look back inside than did Juliann unleash a flood tide of invective at her all over again. Apparently she was MIGHTY PISSED that she'd been overridden by the other mods and Beastie reinstated.

Beastie decided it wasn't worth enduring all the mindless insults and simply moved on to greener pastures.

[_beastie]

Shades is correct in that I left FAIR the second time of my own will and volition. I decided that I would no longer, and never again, participate on a board that was supposedly designed to allow two sides voice, and then systematically engages in a moderating style that poisons the well against one side.

These conversations tend to be recycled time and again. There is a core group, on either side, that has discussed each of these topics in the past. For example, once again, a believer has trotted out the fortifications in the Book of Mormon as some sort of positive evidence of a Mesoamerican "match" - and yet I, and others, have pointed out repeatedly that such fortifications are also referenced in the View of the Hebrews. The only point to these recycled conversations is to offer information to lurkers or newcomers, who are simply seeking information. I'm not willing to tolerate FAIR like moderation to be willing to participate for that reason. I guess I'm just not that altruistic.

However, I deliberately created a mirror thread on ZLMB so Juliann could respond to me, because I knew she would never come here. The mods at Z are friendly to Juliann, there is no reason to avoid posting there - except for the fact that she does not have the protection there that she does at MAD. At Z, while she may have been protected from overtly bad behavior of others, her bad behavior towards others was also censored. That is not the climate she tolerates.

Having said that, I have little doubt that I have been banned since leaving, particularly when the mods stated they would ban people for criticizing FAIR on other boards. I have been very vocal in my criticism of FAIR and have no reason to believe that I have not since been banned, and have no reason to believe Juliann is not aware of any said banning. I can't check because I disabled my account by creating a gibberish password that I then tossed.

Even on MAD, though, she hasn't been able to hide the fact that she has not responded meaningfully to any of my points. She has even contradicted herself several times. First she insisted that I had to provide a definition of postmodernism (ignoring my posts that demonstrated postmodernism) and then acting like I had the idea there WAS some universal definition of the term to begin with. First she criticized me for offering comments about postmodernism from the field of archaeology, and then later contradicted herself by criticizing me for ignoring the impact of postmodernism in other fields.

At least I've had an interesting conversation with Ben on Z about it. You should check it out if you haven't. Ben's postmodernism even extends to denying that the restoration of the "true" priesthood is a foundational claim of Mormonism.

[_beastie]

And, by the way, if Juliann has allowed this critique of her "postmodernism = salvation for Mormonism" theory irritate her, just wait until I finish the Politics of Religious Apostasy text and write my review of it. Her abuse of the text is almost unbelievable. (I believe it only because I know her history.)

[_Mister Scratch]

To be honest, FAIR reinstated Beastie the same time they reinstated myself and Truth Dancer.

Unfortunately, no sooner did Beastie take a look back inside than did Juliann unleash a flood tide of invective at her all over again. Apparently she was MIGHTY PISSED that she'd been overridden by the other mods and Beastie reinstated.

Beastie decided it wasn't worth enduring all the mindless insults and simply moved on to greener pastures.

Aha! Well then, I stand corrected.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Beastie,

At least I've had an interesting conversation with Ben on Z about it. You should check it out if you haven't. Ben's postmodernism even extends to denying that the restoration of the "true" priesthood is a foundational claim of Mormonism.

I just now catching up with this whole conversation on the Z and here... WOW!

One wonders what is considered true by church members. I really do not know these days. I mean traditional believers seem to believe, there was a restoration, the Book of Mormon is a historical book, God once was as man is, The Book of Abraham is a translation of the writings of Moses, "whether by my voice or the prophet it is the same," etc. etc. etc.

Today, I really wonder what is left in which to believe?

~dancer~

Ohhh also, I'm anxiously awaiting your review of the text! That should be fun! :-)